Amano's dying after water change. WHY? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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Amano's dying after water change. WHY?

Hoping to get some answers from the eternally helpful TPT group.

I know someone will ask kH, but dont have a test for it handy today.

Nitrate (NO3") - <2.0 ppm
Nitrite (NO2") - 0ppm
Ammonia (NH3/NH4) - <.20 ppm
pH - 7.5
Temp - 78F

I started with 5 Amanos. My tank is well cycled, and heavily planted. I have lost 3, then 1, then 1 with each subsequent water change.

I have well water, and have even over indexed on PRIME to about 150% the dosage, hoping I dont have a heavy metal issue in my water. The temp is spot on exact, and I haven't been doing more than 25% at a time. When I stop the filter, the shrimp come out of hiding and run around like mad (somewhat typical), and once I add the new water, increasingly so. I come later in the evening, or next day to find them red, and dead. I have lived in this house for 5 years, same water, had 3-5 tanks at a time in the first few years, and never had an issue. I would do 50% changes on my 70 gallon and never lose a hair on a shrimps head, never mind death.

Appreciate any help, and the wisdom shared.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 07:10 PM
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It's possible it's just weak stock and not water related, but the fact some are surviving makes you wonder. Your temp is on the high end of where I prefer keep them, but I wouldn't think warm enough to cause death. I have found that they live for years at 73 or so, but as long as the water going back into the tank wasn't too warm, I doubt it's temp related. Mine swarm during and after water changes (unlike dwarf shrimp) too, so not sure that's an indication of much.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 07:51 PM
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More interested in GH than KH, but amanos are pretty hardy shrimp so it shouldn't matter much....

Ammonia should be 0. Can you test your source water parameters and get back to us on that?


What size tank is this?

What amount of water changes are you doing?

Why do you stop the filter?

When do you turn the filter back on?

What type of filter is it?


Were you keeping amanos previously or a different species?
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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More interested in GH than KH, but amanos are pretty hardy shrimp so it shouldn't matter much....

Ammonia should be 0. Can you test your source water parameters and get back to us on that? To be clear, these were the parameters of the tank water before the change. source water 0 across the board, but slightly higher pH (I have liquid rock for well water)


What size tank is this? 20 gallon

What amount of water changes are you doing? 4-5 gallon

Why do you stop the filter? I have sand substrate, and when the gap in water level, it will dig a hole into my dirt (too messy)

When do you turn the filter back on? Immediately after water level is returned. Tank rarely without it for more than 10 mins max

What type of filter is it? Marineland HOB Penguin 150


Were you keeping amanos previously or a different species?
I was keeping Amano. I had a 75, 40B and 10 all stuffed full of amanos and never had the issue before. Only since starting up the hobby again with my 20L

Only thing I did different in between was have kids....
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 01:23 AM
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Any chance the tank is over-stocked?



Right now, I can only recommend adding in an air stone and see if that helps. Higher temps means less oxygen in the water, so adding an air stone may negate the higher temps. Otherwise, lower the temps down to 68-72 instead. Airstone could still help. (if you don't already have one)
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 04:53 AM
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I have false amanos so maybe not the same. In my experience they are tougher then NEOs when it comes to eating high protein diet/water changes/parameters.....

I keep one tank at 75f another at 77f each has a few large false amanos. The tanks get 50% water changes once a week. Nitrates are usually at 20-40 at water change time (have not tested in a while though). Have not lost one of these guys in a long time.
Oh and one has spent the last few weeks (atleast) in the space under the filter media in my AQ50 thats on my 10g. Not sure how he got in there.

Basically not sure what the issue is. I would look at/for source of ammonia ur reading, try some different stock if possible, and look at some other parameter that may be affecting tank water vs tap/well water.

Oh and I turn my filters off during water change time, usually for 20-30min give or take.


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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 05:17 AM
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I have the same problem with cories in one of my tanks and it could be related to change in osmotic pressure. Check TDS in the tank before water change and TDS of the replacement water. 100 TDS ~= 1 psi.

If TDS values differ a lot then either do more frequent but smaller water changes or try adding fertilizer/ gh booster to the new water first.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 06:23 AM
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Ammonia (NH3/NH4) - <.20 ppm
Perhaps this is the reason.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-04-2020, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
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Very interesting. I will take a look at this and see if this is causing it. Thanks for the info.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2020, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post
I have the same problem with cories in one of my tanks and it could be related to change in osmotic pressure. Check TDS in the tank before water change and TDS of the replacement water. 100 TDS ~= 1 psi.

If TDS values differ a lot then either do more frequent but smaller water changes or try adding fertilizer/ gh booster to the new water first.
Very interesting. I will look into this. Thanks for the suggestion.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotala macrandra View Post
Perhaps this is the reason.
Removing Ammonia? Interesting. I would assume this provides the relief, and 25% water change not that extreme a change anyhow?

Bump:
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Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
Any chance the tank is over-stocked?



Right now, I can only recommend adding in an air stone and see if that helps. Higher temps means less oxygen in the water, so adding an air stone may negate the higher temps. Otherwise, lower the temps down to 68-72 instead. Airstone could still help. (if you don't already have one)
I dont think so. 20 gallons, 4 Bolivian Rams.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2020, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, so to drill a bit deeper here...

I tested, had 0 ammonia, but 5.0 Nitrate. Decided to do a water change...

Water from tap was tested, 0 nitrates, not surprising.

Did a 20% w/c and tested an hour later, nitrates shot up to about 25 ppm! Any ideas on why the jump? @OVT, the TDS in the tank is 133, and tap was 101.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2020, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleB View Post
Ok, so to drill a bit deeper here...

I tested, had 0 ammonia, but 5.0 Nitrate. Decided to do a water change...

Water from tap was tested, 0 nitrates, not surprising.

Did a 20% w/c and tested an hour later, nitrates shot up to about 25 ppm! Any ideas on why the jump? @OVT, the TDS in the tank is 133, and tap was 101.
Probably a testing error somewhere, either on tap reading or first tank reading. Are you using the API drop test? 25 ppm NO3 isn't a big concern for amano, and I wouldn't bat an eye at 5 ppm. I've kept them in 30+ ppm NO3 levels in my tanks in the past without issue.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2020, 05:38 PM
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I try to keep my own nitrates around 10 in planted tanks. Has never seemed to effect shrimp at those levels. 25 is getting higher than would make me happy but I have to wonder if this wasn't a testing issue. You have to really, really shake those nitrate bottles before testing to get an accurate reading.

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 12:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post
I have the same problem with cories in one of my tanks and it could be related to change in osmotic pressure. Check TDS in the tank before water change and TDS of the replacement water. 100 TDS ~= 1 psi.

If TDS values differ a lot then either do more frequent but smaller water changes or try adding fertilizer/ gh booster to the new water first.
OVT, If this were the cause, in your experience, what is a significant shift in psi?
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 06:18 AM
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@DoubleB, that is insignificant change in TDS, wrong guess on my part.

The change in Nitrate is a bit puzzling, if the source water has 0, then it should go down, not up, after a water change. By itself, 20-40 ppm is rather common in planted tanks, but the quick jump from 5 to 25 would make me worried.

The only reasonable explanation would be high nitrates in your well water.

If you fill a bucket with well water, do you see a lot of bubbles? Especially in winter, well water can be highly oxygenated, making critters "drunk". With a 20g, 1 bucket is about 20-25% and you might want to let it de-gass overnight.
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