Necrosis? - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 03:59 AM
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When I had it in one tank, I used tannins.... so many infact that the water was dark tea colored and you couldn't even see the back of the tank. I can't say whether or not that helped, only that it did slow the amount of deaths down... I think. But the necrosis/bacterial infection was the least of my issues... (had deaths in otherwise healthy appearing shrimp prior to and after the necrosis) I didn't lose much of my colony from it, but it wasn't thriving anyway...
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 05:59 AM
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@Jamo33 why boil the oak leaves? Just curious. I put a few almond leaves in from time to time and they sink after a day or so and start getting munched on after a week I think. Last maybe a month or so generally speaking. Ive got alot of algae though so usually they just "snack" on the almond leaves.

Just seems that boiling would be taking alot of the good stuff out but have no experience with the matter.
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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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When I had it in one tank, I used tannins.... so many infact that the water was dark tea colored and you couldn't even see the back of the tank. I can't say whether or not that helped, only that it did slow the amount of deaths down... I think. But the necrosis/bacterial infection was the least of my issues... (had deaths in otherwise healthy appearing shrimp prior to and after the necrosis) I didn't lose much of my colony from it, but it wasn't thriving anyway...
Doing my best to load the tank up with leaf litter, even if anecdotal, I appreciate the help and advice.
This similarly wasn't a thriving colony, but recently there was a large up turn. I have about 6 berries females and 50 odd shrimplets in there. That was from losing 15 of my initial 20. So from 5 to about 70 I was pretty happy.
Hoping I can ward this off.

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@Jamo33 why boil the oak leaves? Just curious. I put a few almond leaves in from time to time and they sink after a day or so and start getting munched on after a week I think. Last maybe a month or so generally speaking. Ive got alot of algae though so usually they just "snack" on the almond leaves.

Just seems that boiling would be taking alot of the good stuff out but have no experience with the matter.
Only a very very quick boil. 1-2 minutes. I picked these leaves from the yard, and rather than potentially introduce any hitchhikers of any sort, bacteria or the likes, just gave them a quick boil. It is simply to limit and further introduction of unwanted yuckies.
Necessary? Probably not, but I couldnt hurt too much could it?

@JJ09 thank you, the stuff grows annoyingly fast now!
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 02:42 PM
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@Jamo33 gotcha, yeah thats probably a good idea.


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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamo33 View Post
Only a very very quick boil. 1-2 minutes. I picked these leaves from the yard, and rather than potentially introduce any hitchhikers of any sort, bacteria or the likes, just gave them a quick boil. It is simply to limit and further introduction of unwanted yuckies.
Necessary? Probably not, but I couldnt hurt too much could it?
I do this, too. I gather pin and white oak leaves from my back yard, at beginning of fall. I boil them 20min and then soak a bit in water with extra dechlor and carbon, just in case. It does remove most of the tannins- my water is never tinted- but I still see the snails and shrimps grazing on the leaves and I hope there is something beneficial for the fishes as they break down in the tank.


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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 03:54 PM
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Just a note about leaf litter: If your intent is to add tannins to a tank? Don't boil for more than a minute or so. As @Jamo33 mentioned, it's just a quick bath in super-hot water to nix as many potential pathogens as possible.


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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Just a note about leaf litter: If your intent is to add tannins to a tank? Don't boil for more than a minute or so. As @Jamo33 mentioned, it's just a quick bath in super-hot water to nix as many potential pathogens as possible.
Right.
If your goal is to have them for looks and not for the tannins, then the boiling is fine. 20mins may be a little much though @JJ09 maybe cut that down, you'll still kill any nasties. But then again, it all helps anyway. It's all to do with preference and reason for having the litter.
To each their own.


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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 04:07 PM
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Ok, making a mental note. I was probably being over cautious- I'll do just 5 min next time!


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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 04:30 PM
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I don't boil at all. I do pick my leaves green straight from branches and not the ground though and the oaks grow on my property and I feel safe using them. I then leave them out in the sun for a week or until they get completely dry. When I did try to boil some long ago I couldn't believe how dark the water was and just felt I was losing a lot of what I was trying to put in there. But don't blame anyone for being cautious with creatures this finicky.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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I don't boil at all. I do pick my leaves green straight from branches and not the ground though and the oaks grow on my property and I feel safe using them. I then leave them out in the sun for a week or until they get completely dry. When I did try to boil some long ago I couldn't believe how dark the water was and just felt I was losing a lot of what I was trying to put in there. But don't blame anyone for being cautious with creatures this finicky.
I think there is also the certain calm with know that 100% your leaves from your property aren't tainted. I am still fearful something may be awry, so a quick boil for safety.


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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 06:41 PM
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Can you use maple leaves? I have a huge tree almost ready to drop some leaves.


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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 06:45 PM
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Maple leaves are aquarium safe. From what I've read, they don't release as much tannins as oak (if that's what you're after) and they break down a lot faster. (I have maple trees in my yard too, but I prefer to use the oak).
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 12:31 AM
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I've used maple from my yard as well. I didn't like them because they are a pile of stems and veins too quickly. And the oak stems seem to soften more and go away in time, but that could be an inaccurate perception issue on my part, not like I ever wrote down dates and kept track.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Day six.
Time to do the water change after having finished the treatment.

No noticeable changes to infected shrimp sadly.
So, do I start a second treatment immediately? Or is this more of a, you tried and now it's time to ride it out scenario?

The really truly frustrating thing about this is the fact that these shrimp were about to be spread throughout my tanks. The smaller 5 gal tank is basically ready and all the culls can live a happy life in my 20 gallon. Such a nuisance!!!


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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-26-2019, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Tank is most likely experiencing a mini cycle after the treatment. Extremely cloudy water now.
I will test parameters of course, but either way I am sure water changes are necessary to help the tank out.
Bacteria probably killed off during the treatment and now experiencing a bloom so slightly annoying.
Unsure as to whether I will continue the second round of medication.
Visibly no change in the shrimp, those with necrosis still have with tissue damage and I cannot say if more are showing signs or not. This is a difficult disease.
My hope is that I have warded off further spreading of the disease, but only time will tell. I have also removed any shrimp that were too far gone (entire body white). This is to prevent a death I can't see and healthy shrimp consuming and therefore contracting the infection.


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