Neos + caridina + others? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Neos + caridina + others?

The more I learn, the less I know...or that's how it seems anyway. Rather than frustrating myself reinventing the wheel (especially on the key parameters issues), I'd rather ask how the breeders and accomplished keepers here would do this.

Goal: stock a show tank with a colorful array of shrimp and inverts, self-sustaining where possible. Not much room for culling, so breeding true is prized. I'm thinking of one striking solid color shrimp species and another with stripes of some sort (CRS/OEBT/BW/etc) plus green babaulti, if they won't crossbreed with the caridina species. I'd thought of sunkist shrimp but just read they not only require brackish water for breeding but for survival. I would consider a small fan shrimp too.

Setup: 7.5g with ohko rock, moss, and beige sand on a black stone countertop; in-tank filter with spraybar. Zebra nerite and golden mystery snail are already there and may add micro crabs, so I can't lower the pH too far. Current parameters are 7.8-8.3 pH (aquarium shop vs. water dept readings), 60 ppm hardness, 50 ppm alkaliniity. If I work down to just DI water with appropriate buffering, is this still too high for breeding CRS?

FWIW, I'm keeping an open mind but like the looks of Bloody Marys, PFRs, OEBT, Blue Wizards, and CRS.

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 06:30 PM
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If you want a healthy shrimp colony, you'll need to conduct regular maintenance and, ideally, weekly or so water changes. There's no self-sustaining here.

Familiarize yourself with degrees of hardness - kH & gH. Get a good quality liquid test kit. Will be important to have a full understanding of kH, gH and TDS before jumping into a mixed tank.

If you want to keep Crystals, you'll probably need to use remineralized RO/DI water. But it's not a good idea to keep them with other species of shrimp. Do one or the other.

In a tank with inert substrate, you'll be able to Neos with (possibly) Tigers or Neos with Babaulti. No Crystals or Bees.

I'd go with Neos of some sort and Tangerine Tigers if you can keep parameters in check and ideal for them.

Note: Before anyone chimes in with a smarty pants comment about being able to keep Neos and Crystals together? Yes, you can. Is it ideal? Nope. Especially difficult for beginners to have success.


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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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Self-sustaining in terms of breeding true whenever applicable was my meaning. It was sort of an oblique reference to OEBT especially, but also ones like Blue Wizards which I'm rather with.

I was really afraid you were going to say that about the single-species CRS tanks. I'd read that they could be kept together, which gave me the idea, but then eventually saw posts like yours that led to this thread.

Time to look into a second, CRS only tank.

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 12:32 AM
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There are several varieties that will breed true. Or true-ish. Pure Line CRS/CBS tend to do well depending upon the source. They still produce various patterns of varying quality.

Bees are generally great.

Super Tiger. Tangerine Tiger. Both of those do well.

No Neo is perfect but most colonies will produce some nice shrimp if you try.

Babaulti, while muted in terms of coloration, almost always produce nice offspring.

With any shrimp tank, you're gonna be pulling lower quality shrimp if that's something that's important to you. For me? I just let my colonies do their thing. If there are ever any truly ugly shrimp, I'll sometimes move then to a tank I don't worry about. That rarely happens. I find it's just as enjoyable to let shrimp do what shrimp do without worrying about staying fancy.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 03:55 AM
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If you get low grade CRS, you *might* be able to keep them in the tank, but you'll probably have better luck with tigers, TBH.


So if we are going for a Neo/Tiger colony, I would suggest at least 6-7 GH, or ~108 ppm to 125 ppm minimum. 3 KH or ~54 ppm is fine there.


In short, your alkalinity is fine but your hardness is too low. It should be about double if you want to successfully keep shrimp.




If you have a good breeding colony though, you'll either need a bigger tank or be able to sell/trade off the offspring as necessary.



Highly recommend liquid test kits across the board for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, GH and KH. You can use liquid and/or digital meter for pH and TDS meters (with calibration solution) can also come in handy. The test strips are not considered accurate, so not too many people are willing to help out without having information from a liquid test kit.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
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One thing about the test kits: I used API for in my first stint in the hobby (neos + tigers) but was never satisfied. I'm planning to get a Sera kit now that I'm sure I'll need one and new batteries for the old TDS meter. The PPM numbers actually came from the city water department, not test strips.

The funny thing about the GH is that only a few miles away at my old location, the water is dGH 8, dKH 7. I think I still have some GH Booster somewhere, so I'm set.

I'm starting to like the look of the Super Tigers.

Are there any neos that do not interbreed?


Is there a rough rule of thumb for when and how much to feed an invert tank?



Frankly, I'm surprised that the tap pH is acceptable for Super or Tangerine Tigers, considering the lower numbers I recall for OEBT.

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Last edited by Darkblade48; 09-26-2019 at 12:22 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 01:42 PM
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Most people raise tigers in lower parameters, but they can quite potentially handle higher numbers, like Neos.

With a few exceptions, all Neos are currently considered the same species... so they'll all interbreed. (even ones of a different species)
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Hmm, guess I'll go with babaulti, super tigers and either bloody mary or blue dreams. Thanks!

Which pH would you recommend I shoot for? Or is ease of maintaining stability more important? It seems like you're leaning toward the latter but I'd like to be sure.

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 02:18 PM
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Are there any neos that do not interbreed?
Not to my knowledge. And line bred colors can go away quickly in "Skittles" tanks.

Quote:
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Is there a rough rule of thumb for when and how much to feed an invert tank?
The amount of food these tiny things need is ridiculously little. And they mostly eat film algae and "biofilm" growing in the aquarium. When you get 50 or so in a tank that size, they can exhaust what is growing and require much more supplemental feeding, but my rule of thumb is that if I drop food in and it isn't covered in shrimp then they didn't need fed. It was strange for me as a hobby fish breeder having all of these babies and not really doing anything!
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 02:37 PM
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So true! In my pico shrimp tanks, I tried feeding a couple times, and the shrimp just ignored the food. Biofilm and algae just keep them happy.

Cheers

My style: Organic soil, sand, gravel, Top Fin MF10, Tunze Comline Nanofilter 3161, Apex EL, Fluval Planted 3.0, two-siesta lighting schedule, and minimal maintenance.


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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Keep in mind there's already a nerite and a mystery snail and I may add others slowly over time.

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 10:43 PM
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But it's not a good idea to keep them with other species of shrimp. Do one or the other.
Why do you say this?
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-26-2019, 08:56 AM
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Hmm, guess I'll go with babaulti, super tigers and either bloody mary or blue dreams. Thanks!

Which pH would you recommend I shoot for? Or is ease of maintaining stability more important? It seems like you're leaning toward the latter but I'd like to be sure.
Go for the minimum recommend GH and KH, do not bother messing around with pH. Trying to achieve an ideal pH could result in more harm than not to the shrimp.

The only exception would be the low pH shrimp where you would require RO water or distilled, GH only minerals and a buffering substrate to keep the pH somewhere within the range of 5.5 to 6.5. Even then, you would not mess with the pH as it will settle at what it needs to be. A low pH may indicate a cycling tank, a higher pH may indicate exhausted or just poor substrate.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-26-2019, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Go for the minimum recommend GH and KH, do not bother messing around with pH. Trying to achieve an ideal pH could result in more harm than not to the shrimp.
So tap water, a bit of GH Booster, a bit of Prime, keep the surface and filter intakes clean, and I'm good to go, once I have the numbers dialed in. Thanks, Zoidburg.


Okay, so I oversimplied it a bit. I'll need to monitor the numbers regularly more so because of the snails: getting their feeding worked out; adding slowly to the population, and observing very closely when they go inert. They add a surprising amount of interest to a tank, but can be absolute bombs if they die unnoticed.

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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 08:21 PM
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I'm fairly inexperienced but I have a 12" cube I've had great success with carrying and breeding Golden Bee shrimp.

I use Salty Shrimp Bee Shrimp gh+ to remineralize RO/DI water I store in two 5-gallon pickle buckets. I try to keep the TDS around 120-150 and let the bugs do their thing. Bee Shrimp keeping is really easy if you've got a plan and keep doing regular maintenance.

I LOVE SCREEEEMPS!!!!!
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