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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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I love the look of the yellow tigers but imagine they're as difficult to keep as CRS. Or am I wrong?



OEBT - are those the only blue tigers or are there ones with normal eyes? If so, how are their genetics?


What are the ideal parameters for BT/OEBT in a tank with a neutral substrate? GH 7, KH 1+?

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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 11:14 PM
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Tangerine tigers (which I assume is a different trade name for the same tiger) are quite hardy, more so than most crystals. I have never seen a dark eyed blue tiger in person but have seen photos so assume they exist. Have been looking for homebred blue tigers myself for a couple of months with zero luck. As for parameters, I could only parrot what the care sheets suggest.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 11:34 PM
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It's actually pretty well spelled out in my original post but... Newcomers trying to keep Crystals and Neos in the same tank generally ends in disaster at worst and constant headaches at best.

And because it's generally more humane to keep shrimp in parameters that are known to be more ideal for them. Crystals do best in low/no kH water, Neos do better with a decent bit of carbonate hardness.

If you want to keep different species of shrimp together? You should pick varieties that do well in the same kind of parameters.

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Why do you say this?
Blue Ridge Reef and evil8 like this.


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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef View Post
Tangerine tigers (which I assume is a different trade name for the same tiger) are quite hardy, more so than most crystals. I have never seen a dark eyed blue tiger in person but have seen photos so assume they exist. Have been looking for homebred blue tigers myself for a couple of months with zero luck. As for parameters, I could only parrot what the care sheets suggest.

Not precisely yellow, but more so than the TTs I've seen and the markings are much more like tigers than the morse code on TTs:





The website where I found that pic says they're pretty rare but doesn't even list TTs, so I'm not sure about any of it. I would love to have some of these in a tank with medium blue Neos, if the YTs are hardy enough. I suspect they're far too sensitive and require rather demanding conditions but thought I'd ask.

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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 01:55 AM
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You can get close-ish to that, @Rainer, if you selectively breed Super Tigers. Start with ones that have tons of yellow on their tails.

You can get all the way there (or better) if you spend a couple years working on it.


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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 03:26 AM Thread Starter
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That could be a fun challenge, @somewhatshocked. If you have any pointers on finding super tigers like that, I'd appreciate a PM.

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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 03:53 AM Thread Starter
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My current tank uses tap water (7.8-8.2 pH, 60 ppm GH*, 50 ppm KH*) and I've recently added GH booster to increase the dGH by 3 for the sake of the shrimp. This has resulted in chalky, harsh appearing water and has me rethinking the concept. I'd prefer to have a good colony of tigers (either blue or try breeding yellows from super tigers) as the primary focus and some neos as an afterthought, as parameter requirements go. Soon I'll have only a couple of snails in the tank, so this is a good opportunity to switch over to tiger-friendly water.



One site I've found recommends 6.8-7.0 pH, 25-75 ppm GH, and 40-120 ppm KH - very close to my tap water, except for the pH. Not close enough, so DI water it is. This is a sand substrate tank, so slightly alkaline is the best I can hope for. Any recommendations on remineralizers?


I plan on drip acclimating the snails very slowly once the change has been made.



Any concern for the mosses or mini pellia?



* Water district readings, not from test strips. Sera kit is still on order

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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 03:20 PM
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I've found YKK's to be more sensitive than Neos when it comes to poison from the air, but both will perish.

My first YKK colony was actually a major breeding machine - more so than my Neos. (considering I was struggling with Neos, maybe that doesn't say much?). My second colony, from a different source, has been slow to breed - regardless of the parameters they're in. (Neo or Caridina...)
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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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I've found YKK's to be more sensitive than Neos when it comes to poison from the air, but both will perish.
What sort of poison?

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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 04:08 AM
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What sort of poison?
See this thread...

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...asy-steps.html
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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 02:33 PM
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I know it's not always possible for everyone and isn't immediately helpful but I've found that having an air purification system in my tank rooms is a huge help.

With a nice enough system (think $150-$200ish for a small room/closet), it's possible to cut many contaminants down to almost nothing. I've spray painted (I know, I know... shh.) in the same room with no deaths. In the past with no air filtration? I've lost hardy fish when merely spray painting something small in another room.

Recently spray painted a tank stand (the red one in my H. rubra journal) outside and stayed out with it an hour or two. Came back inside long after everything was dry and had been wiped down. I didn't think there'd be much airborne. Discovered when I cleaned my air filter a week later that all kinds of little red particulate matter had been sucked up. Anecdotal and all but I'm glad I had the air filter.

I'm not sure what cheaper $40-$50 systems do but I know nicer ones (think three-stage Winix for small rooms) work well. I have probably 95% less dust - clean ceiling fan blades(!) - and that means waaaay less crap is potentially getting into my shrimp tanks.

If anyone lives in a less than ideal housing situation and can afford one, I recommend it. Also helpful for allergy sufferers and for those with insensitive/pick-a-better-term neighbors who smoke inside their condo or apartment building.


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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Are humic and fulvic acids necessary for neo or tiger tanks?



Their absence has been suggested as the reason for the chalky conditions I'd attributed to bacteria but I would have thought they were only needed in CRS-parameter and blackwater environments.

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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 04:02 PM
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Could you share a photo so it's easier to see what you're talking about?

It honestly just sounds like you're over-analyzing things and letting impatience get the better of you. Happens to all of us - even experienced shrimpers. Because even gross-looking water will typically clear up after cycling.


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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
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Are humic and fulvic acids necessary for neo or tiger tanks?



Their absence has been suggested as the reason for the chalky conditions I'd attributed to bacteria but I would have thought they were only needed in CRS-parameter and blackwater environments.
No they are not required... that said, humic, fulvic and tannic acids can help to discourage the growth of bacteria. When a shrimp's body turns white, this is either considered muscle necrosis or a bacterial infection.
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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
Could you share a photo so it's easier to see what you're talking about?

It honestly just sounds like you're over-analyzing things and letting impatience get the better of you. Happens to all of us - even experienced shrimpers. Because even gross-looking water will typically clear up after cycling.
The tank was set up in July and has had snails for roughly six weeks now, so it should be cycled. I added GH Booster three weeks ago for the incoming neos; coincidentally, the water turned chalky, became opaque, then took on a brownish cast. I decided to focus on tigers, returned the neos, drained the tank to the sand, then refilled with DI water remineralized with Salty Shrimp GH/KH+. The water was crystal clear for the first day, then began becoming cloudy again. It's not as bad as it was, but seems to be on its way and is worse in person than it appears in the photo. NO2 = zero.

Incidentally, I'm looking for black bands to replace the blue and a substitute for the rightmost rock. Unfortunately it has my supply of mini-Taiwan moss growing on its vertical surfaces.

Scaping suggestions welcomed
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