How true do these shrimp breed? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
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How true do these shrimp breed?

Blues:
Dream Blue Velvet
Blue Diamond
OEBT

Red:
Bloody Mary
PFR
Tangerine Tiger

I'd like to breed one red and one blue (one caridina and one neo) species for my show tank. I have a enough hardscape in the breeder tank that culling would be a pain, so I'd like to know how true these lines breed and if the tigers will really be okay in a 7.5 pH, 8dGH, 7dKH, high CO2 environment. It will have a good deal of hardscape and plants, plus only small community fish, so I expect some population growth within the tank itself.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer View Post
Blues:

Dream Blue Velvet

Blue Diamond

OEBT



Red:

Bloody Mary

PFR

Tangerine Tiger



I'd like to breed one red and one blue (one caridina and one neo) species for my show tank. I have a enough hardscape in the breeder tank that culling would be a pain, so I'd like to know how true these lines breed and if the tigers will really be okay in a 7.5 pH, 8dGH, 7dKH, high CO2 environment. It will have a good deal of hardscape and plants, plus only small community fish, so I expect some population growth within the tank itself.
I haven't had caridina before though I know they are easy to breed too... But all the neocaridina will breed in no time if given a healthy environment...

From you list, except a few all others are the same neocaridina species and if kept in the same tank, they will inter breed and the strains will be lost...

Also, even the smallest fish will eat the shrimplets as it is their natural food... So, the chances of multiplication is a bit restricted in a community tank...

If you intend to breed them, give them their own tank...

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 02:44 AM Thread Starter
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To be clear:
I'm breeding one neo and one caridina (one red, the other blue)
I have a breeder tank for the show tank
I expect predation of the fry from the community fish in the show tank but not 100% considering the hardscape and plant mass. If the loss were 100%, I'd add multiple strains of the same species strictly for show.

What I need to know is how true each line breeds. I don't want to waste my time culling 75% of the shrimplets, for example.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 04:40 AM
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Not a shrimp expert by any means. I have the RCS and brown emeralds in my 40B. Only 2 of the browns made it initially but one was berried and I had a couple small fry I dropped in from the LFS when I got them. There are about 5-6 adult RCS (very dark red like painted I think) from my original batch.

Right now I have counted roughly 4-5 first batch ones which are pretty much small adult size, about 10 second batch (from same parents) which are growing nicely, about another 8-10 of another later batch which consist of what looks like reds and browns. I also have scene several very small guys (1/8") but this is still in the kill zone. EDIT: Wanted to add I just checked tonight with the light and there are probably 15 or so of these babies, they dont show any red so think they are the batch of browns. If I remember correctly the reds had color at this size.

There colors are what I would call medium/high grade right now. The parents are solid colors, the offspring that made it are more like a regular RCS that has some clear spots but they are very bright red everywhere else. Not sure how this will play out once they get older. The baby browns are solid brown with red highlights which is pretty cool but cant imagine this will last long.

Fish are CPDs, false juliis, OTOs, ember tetras. I think heavy planted and a couple large clumps of java moss are key.

Last edited by Quint; 06-15-2019 at 05:37 AM. Reason: Update
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 03:26 PM
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You'll definitely have to cull no matter what you have.

For the most part, generations of solid coloration will lead to better-colored shrimp. But there's always some culling that has to occur in order to maintain things.

Each 'line' isn't so much a line, as there are so many breeders at this point. But they're the result of selective breeding and culling. Anyone who tells you their shrimp breed 100% true 100% of the time is either dishonest or doesn't understand what they're doing/have never looked at a basic shrimp genetics chart.

That's not to say you'll be culling 75% of shrimp. Depending upon your situation, you may only have to pull 2-3 shrimp per clutch - once they're old enough to know how their coloration is going to turn out.

Some of my CRS colonies require almost no culling. Some of them require that I constantly keep an eye on things if I'm focusing on coloration. My Neo and Tiger tanks - always require more culling than Crystals/Bees regardless of lineage, regardless of age. Just a nature of the beast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer View Post
To be clear:
I'm breeding one neo and one caridina (one red, the other blue)
I have a breeder tank for the show tank
I expect predation of the fry from the community fish in the show tank but not 100% considering the hardscape and plant mass. If the loss were 100%, I'd add multiple strains of the same species strictly for show.

What I need to know is how true each line breeds. I don't want to waste my time culling 75% of the shrimplets, for example.


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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 06:38 PM
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If you want one red and one blue.... I guess that rules out TT's.... since they are more orange/yellow in coloration. That said, I do have YKK's which are believed to have come from TT lineage (although no one knows exactly what, since the breeder took that secret to their grave?) and I have kept them in both Neo and Caridina parameters. The first group of YKK's I got from a breeder in California and they actually bred *FANTASTICALLY* in Neo parameters... at the time, I think it was play sand (for sure) and a mix of soft tap water (river water from lake fed by rain and snow melt) and hard tap water (basically well water - an aquifer). Due to unfortunate circumstances, that colony did not survive long. I later ended up getting another group of YKK's from a Florida breeder that were put into the same tank, but by this time, it was remineralized RO water, still with play sand. Not much breeding but the group was pretty young when I got them. I have since put them into Caridina parameters and have had a little more breeding, and now have some juvie shrimp.

So I guess that leaves you with the OEBT's, which I don't know how true they breed. This then means that you require a red shrimp.... which means PFR and Bloody Mary. I've never had PFR, but personally, I'd recommend Bloody Mary. Even the males are a brilliant red!

And the amount of culling may also depend on the line... I can't say who has the best line, but just something to consider.



All in all... do not purchase imports! Make sure you go with home bred shrimp!
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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I lumped TTs in with reds because they're dark enough to pop against a planted background, moreso than the yellows would. I'll reconsider that if I go with a dark substrate, where the yellows would really stand out.

A breeder I met once warned me against one of the new strains because it did not breed true enough. I'm vague on the details, but think it was either BMs or one of the blue neos.

In color hierarchies, is it BM>PFR>TFR>Sakura>RCS in descending order of quality?

Agreed on buying domestic-grown shrimp and fish.

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 04:36 PM
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Online shrimp stores usually have PFR more expensive than BM. With Neos the color of your substrate matters a lot on how their colors turn out
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 05:55 PM
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Blue neos have the worst percentage of same colored babies of any I've kept. Supposedly there are lines that breed more true, but really any line of shrimp will need to be culled. I can't agree enough that you should source homebred shrimp and not imports.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 08:05 PM
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BM's - it depends on the line, honestly. Some lines breed close to true where-as others might throw blues or browns - supposedly.

I understand that some blues can be the same... possibly throwing out other colors.

BM can't be compared to the other reds.... it would be like comparing a green apple with a green orange.... (oranges were/are originally green!) sure, they are both green, but they aren't exactly the same thing....

As far as the rest... yes, it's PFR>FR>Sakura>Cherry



Me personally, if I were to choose a blue, it would be a Blue Dream. Seems there may be some conflict over what exactly a "Dream Blue Velvet" is.... is it a blue velvet? A blue dream? Or? I don't know... that confuses me.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 08:22 PM
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I can't put a lot of stock in the neo trade names outside of obvious ones (orange, Bloody Marys, rili, etc.). It seems some breeders call the lighter ones dreams and others call the lighter ones velvets. I hadn't even heard the term blue dream velvet until just now.

My first batch of blue dreams were pretty shrimp, but few offspring looked like the parents. I now have a colony of imports that I bought as blue velvets that are even worse. Hardly any babies have been remotely blue in color with this line. You might have to look hard because the juvies are pretty much Flourite colored. I think this can be at least partly avoided if you buy homebred stock that is breeding true for the seller.
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