Breeding Amano Shrimp - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OpinionUnFiltered View Post
I like the wrapping idea.
My setup includes a 1 gallon jar for the babies, and I also aim for 34-35ppt salinity.
The gallon jar, and reserve saltwater (for next change) are kept in a water bath. 76deg, roughly.
I have been operating on the assumption that any algae or diatom that is from my fw tanks will immediately die in my salt jar, but now you've got me thinking on that. I certainly have some diatom deposits in a couple tanks, and adding a finger scrape would be quite easy.
In terms of feeding, I fed the first batch brewers yeast. Just the tiniest tip of a sharp knife daily. Can't recall if I included spirulina flake as they aged (need to keep better records). Since then I've tried some other options, and frankly have been messing with too many variables. So I know that's an issue. I got a bottle of seachem reef phyto, which has a wonderful nori-like smell, I can't imagine that's not good stuff for them. I also have just picked up a small container of NLS Reef Cell, which seems to be their version of golden pearls. And the powdered spirulina. I don't feel all these at once, and I feed super-sparingly. But I still think I might be overdoing it, based on the growth of what appears to be fungus on the bottom and sides of the jar. White slimy film/clumps.
My salt is seachem Vibrant Sea. Always mixed and aged for at last 1-2 days before adding, with aeration.
My last batch I changed about a litre (1 mason jar) every day or other day.
My lighting is an 18" t5HO above the water bath, so I think the power's there, to grow algae/diatoms.
I also try to keep a bit of green marine hair algae in the rearing jar, just a pinch I got from the live rock tanks at the lfs. Mostly I got that cause I figured it would bring in some phytoplankton, in small amounts.
I currently have a berried female in a separate jar, I'm expecting her to shed eggs any day. I think this time around I'll find a way to stick with 24hr light, daily water changes, and little-no feeding. I've been running the salt jar empty for almost 2 weeks now since I lost the last of the last batch, with 6am-9pm light, so it should be nice and ready for the larvae when I move them over.
Here's hoping!
And thanks for all your help!
Yes his wrapping idea is great. Brought me the idea of just putting your set up in a open cardboard box. A lot of directions you can go with this concept.
As for your set up. You are going super hardcore with what you are putting in there. Seems like your trying to give those little amanos steroids! Also super hardcore on the water changes. Do you have circulation? Is the reef photo live plankton? Not sure what that is. Putting anything in there that is living other then algae will compete with food plus assist with water parameter fluctuations. I love that you are trying all these things and I am very curious if there is a balance of some of them that will help but as you said you are doing to much at once and don't really have a control and the one variable change to compare it with.
This next batch you are about to have please take half of the babies and go more of the route I have explained in original post. Seeded algae, Only 20-30 percent water change at most every 3-5 days and keep up on your salinity. When you described your creation of your salt water (''Always mixed and aged for at last 1-2 days before adding, with aeration'') it seemed like perfection btw. But very awesome man. I look forward to hearing about your experiences.

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post #17 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 11:02 PM
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Seeing this post has me thinking about giving Amano shrimp breeding a try again. I tried it a few years back and best I could get was again that 5-20 day range before they died off. A thought I was thinking through this post was the ammonia buildup aspect. Since salt tanks usually use live rock for their beneficial bacteria, I wonder how well it would work having a piece or two of some smaller fist sized live rock (without all the extra critters of course) to help keep the ammonia from building up. Plus I would imagine live rock to be a good source for some algae in the tank too. When I last tried this attempt at breeding Amano's I recall the salt creep was a PITA. I did use an air stone to keep the water circulating, however I think if I tried it now a trick I learned from L.R. Brets of using a plastic cap to act as some sort of bubble disperser, so hopefully that would help keep the air bubbles from making so much salt creep. Think now I'm gonna go buy one of those all in one 5 gallon tanks, so it has a cheap light and a lid on the tank. I'll probably also saran wrap the tank to keep evaporation to a minimum. I did recently get a 30 gallon plastic drum that I'll clean up to ensure nothing is in there to use for making one batch of saltwater to use for water changes.

I now suddenly know what I'm going to use my gift cards for my local salt store that I've gotten from the local fish club I'm part of! LOL

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post #18 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by symstep View Post
Do you have circulation? Is the reef photo live plankton? Not sure what that is. Putting anything in there that is living other then algae will compete with food plus assist with water parameter fluctuations. I love that you are trying all these things and I am very curious if there is a balance of some of them that will help but as you said you are doing to much at once and don't really have a control and the one variable change to compare it with.
This next batch you are about to have please take half of the babies and go more of the route I have explained in original post. Seeded algae, Only 20-30 percent water change at most every 3-5 days and keep up on your salinity. When you described your creation of your salt water (''Always mixed and aged for at last 1-2 days before adding, with aeration'') it seemed like perfection btw. But very awesome man. I look forward to hearing about your experiences.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not quite ready space-wise to split my batches, but soon.

Some answers to your other questions...
- The reef phyto is not live. Even if it were, it would be single-celled phytoplankton (plant type organisms), not consumers or predators. So not competitors. I've been thinking about starting a live phytoplankton culture for feeding the amano babies. But again, not yet.

- Circulation is via a single airstone, bubbling quite gently.

- I use a kitchen scale that makes saltwater mixing fast and easy. I weigh the RO water that goes into my mixing jar, and add 33g of reef salt per litre (1 litre being 1,000g - gotta love metric). So let's say I pour 2,743g of water (2.743L), I add 2.743 x 33g of salt = 90.5g. And I use a refractometer for monitoring salinity, which reads both ppt and specific gravity. I think it's based on 77 or 78 degrees, so no adjusting there.

- Another trick for maintaining salinity is finding jars with lids that sit inside the rim of the jar. I use ikea jars with the rubber seal on a glass lid (like pantry jars for sugar or flour). The glass lid lets all the light in for the algae, and yes the lid is propped up for the airline, but all the condensation on the lid drips back into the jar.



I think the overfeeding is just classic inexperience and lack of confidence (due to inexperience LOL). I see babies dying, and don't know why. Salinity is in the right range, so it's either foul water or lack of food. So change water, and add enough food that I can cross starvation off the list. I just don't have the confidence to not feed them. But this time around I have been running the salt jar for a few weeks with some thread like green algae, and I'm more confident that the food they need is there. So I'll change to 24hr light, cut out the feeding, and change less water. All I need now is for the adult female to release her batch.
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post #19 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chayos00 View Post
Seeing this post has me thinking about giving Amano shrimp breeding a try again. I tried it a few years back and best I could get was again that 5-20 day range before they died off. A thought I was thinking through this post was the ammonia buildup aspect. Since salt tanks usually use live rock for their beneficial bacteria, I wonder how well it would work having a piece or two of some smaller fist sized live rock (without all the extra critters of course) to help keep the ammonia from building up. Plus I would imagine live rock to be a good source for some algae in the tank too. When I last tried this attempt at breeding Amano's I recall the salt creep was a PITA. I did use an air stone to keep the water circulating, however I think if I tried it now a trick I learned from L.R. Brets of using a plastic cap to act as some sort of bubble disperser, so hopefully that would help keep the air bubbles from making so much salt creep. Think now I'm gonna go buy one of those all in one 5 gallon tanks, so it has a cheap light and a lid on the tank. I'll probably also saran wrap the tank to keep evaporation to a minimum. I did recently get a 30 gallon plastic drum that I'll clean up to ensure nothing is in there to use for making one batch of saltwater to use for water changes.

I now suddenly know what I'm going to use my gift cards for my local salt store that I've gotten from the local fish club I'm part of! LOL
First off your 125 gallon is beautiful! Very very nice work!

Glad you are thinking about giving the breeding another try. Unfortunately it is a common thing for most people to lose them all around 15-20 days. I feel like ammonia has to be the main reason. I am suspicious that they may not even be eating for the first 5 days so people hand feeding plus once they start creating ammonia themselves a spike would fit this timeline? I like the idea of having beneficial bacteria in there but I believe it cant live in light and if you make a substrate somewhat deep then I would fear that some babies would get lost down in there lmao but one or two very porous rocks already cycled may be a nice addition for each jar. I would rather just not trust that tho. love the saran wrap idea as long as you have a portion still open. Very cool you are going to buy a new setup, I now had the thought it may be nice for some of you to see my set up so I will post here soon.
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post #20 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OpinionUnFiltered View Post
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not quite ready space-wise to split my batches, but soon.

Some answers to your other questions...
- The reef phyto is not live. Even if it were, it would be single-celled phytoplankton (plant type organisms), not consumers or predators. So not competitors. I've been thinking about starting a live phytoplankton culture for feeding the amano babies. But again, not yet.

- Circulation is via a single airstone, bubbling quite gently.

- I use a kitchen scale that makes saltwater mixing fast and easy. I weigh the RO water that goes into my mixing jar, and add 33g of reef salt per litre (1 litre being 1,000g - gotta love metric). So let's say I pour 2,743g of water (2.743L), I add 2.743 x 33g of salt = 90.5g. And I use a refractometer for monitoring salinity, which reads both ppt and specific gravity. I think it's based on 77 or 78 degrees, so no adjusting there.

- Another trick for maintaining salinity is finding jars with lids that sit inside the rim of the jar. I use ikea jars with the rubber seal on a glass lid (like pantry jars for sugar or flour). The glass lid lets all the light in for the algae, and yes the lid is propped up for the airline, but all the condensation on the lid drips back into the jar.



I think the overfeeding is just classic inexperience and lack of confidence (due to inexperience LOL). I see babies dying, and don't know why. Salinity is in the right range, so it's either foul water or lack of food. So change water, and add enough food that I can cross starvation off the list. I just don't have the confidence to not feed them. But this time around I have been running the salt jar for a few weeks with some thread like green algae, and I'm more confident that the food they need is there. So I'll change to 24hr light, cut out the feeding, and change less water. All I need now is for the adult female to release her batch.
Yeah your salinity work is better than mine haha the salinity can't be the problem. As for your new plan I DIG IT! Try to get some brown diatom in there as well and trust that if you see algae in there then they are fine. 20-30 percent water changes every few days, your circulation seems great and you got your eye on the prize haha. Thank you very much for contributing to the thread and I can't wait to hear what happens. Good luck!
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post #21 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

Had the thought to share a picture of my set up. This is a picture I took after cleaning everything while waiting on another batch to begin so it is not a ''during process'' picture but you get the point
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post #22 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 09:21 PM
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I think it needs to be noted that this thread is amazing. I doubt I will ever be able to, or even attempt to breed amanos, but if I do I will be coming to this thread for sure. That being said, I have two new tanks being set up and Amanos were on the purchase list already.
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post #23 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 09:24 PM
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First off your 125 gallon is beautiful! Very very nice work!

Glad you are thinking about giving the breeding another try. Unfortunately it is a common thing for most people to lose them all around 15-20 days. I feel like ammonia has to be the main reason. I am suspicious that they may not even be eating for the first 5 days so people hand feeding plus once they start creating ammonia themselves a spike would fit this timeline? I like the idea of having beneficial bacteria in there but I believe it cant live in light and if you make a substrate somewhat deep then I would fear that some babies would get lost down in there lmao but one or two very porous rocks already cycled may be a nice addition for each jar. I would rather just not trust that tho. love the saran wrap idea as long as you have a portion still open. Very cool you are going to buy a new setup, I now had the thought it may be nice for some of you to see my set up so I will post here soon.
Thanks! Yeah thinking about it now, I do wonder if it was ammonia. I think when I do it again I'm going to get one of those seachem ammonia detectors to also get a quick visual if things are going bad. I had a 5g bucket of Daphnia growing and just yesterday discovered I killed the bucket, did an ammonia test and it was through the roof. So, next time I'll add some biomedia in it to see if that works at all, kinda like the live rock idea for it's BB.

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post #24 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 10:12 PM
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I finally found the page I had printed off from when I first tried to raise Amano babies. I didn't have the greenwater nor did I go with the concentrated SW either. Just stuck to the 34ppm and used store bought plankton mixes. https://lovefishtank.com/amano-shrimp-keeping-breeding/

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post #25 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
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I think it needs to be noted that this thread is amazing. I doubt I will ever be able to, or even attempt to breed amanos, but if I do I will be coming to this thread for sure. That being said, I have two new tanks being set up and Amanos were on the purchase list already.
Thank you very much! I appreciate you saying that.
Glad you have them on the list, I personally think they are fantastic. I bought ten from a LFS to go into my 125g and once I released them into the tank they went to the bottom and immediately went to work. They are awesome. But if that day comes where you have a mother and you are interested in trying then you should definitely go for it.

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post #26 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
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I finally found the page I had printed off from when I first tried to raise Amano babies. I didn't have the greenwater nor did I go with the concentrated SW either. Just stuck to the 34ppm and used store bought plankton mixes. https://lovefishtank.com/amano-shrimp-keeping-breeding/
I went and checked out that page. Very interesting saying that switching off the light kills some... Have I avoided this by chance due to needing as much algae growth as possible? Or is this another misconception? I think I will try to experiment with this. Also again with the low ppt and green water haha. Id like to know if anyone really has success that way. Thank you for posting that link, I feel like I didn't ever come across that one. Remember when you do your next attempt tho to not underestimate algae for the diet. Also I wouldn't turn out the light until we get that figured out
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post #27 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 12:01 AM
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I went and checked out that page. Very interesting saying that switching off the light kills some... Have I avoided this by chance due to needing as much algae growth as possible? Or is this another misconception? I think I will try to experiment with this. Also again with the low ppt and green water haha. Id like to know if anyone really has success that way. Thank you for posting that link, I feel like I didn't ever come across that one. Remember when you do your next attempt tho to not underestimate algae for the diet. Also I wouldn't turn out the light until we get that figured out
Yeah I kept the lights on in an attempt to get the algae growing crazy. But yeah interesting to see all the things that people do suggest for getting things to work for these guys.

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post #28 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 12:47 AM
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I had one successful batch of 20 last year and will attempt again once it gets warmer to avoid having to heat it.

The post success attempts have been poor and even using the same methods did not yield the same results. I used diatoms only and live phyto nannochloropsis (sp) and noticed that overly green water usually ends up with losses, I don't feed the tank either but the 24 hour and live phyto usually grows too quickly. I perform a water change to thin the algae. The post batches were more than 20. As they get into the later stages, you don't need 24 hour lighting from the batch that survived.

I had created a thread and video documented the larval growth from hatching to as far as I could get before they died. I want to eventually finish it up and document the full life cycle from hatching to post. I have most of their life cycle documented from my iPhone but want to get the close up view of full life cycle with my DSLR setup

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...ching-egg.html

Just reading what people are doing, it isn't something that I'm doing differently so I just wonder how Chappy has such great repeatable results and especially for not having any live phyto. I can't even say having a good amount of diatoms is an indicator you'll succeed since I haven't been able to replicate it. The post success batches I had were much larger like over 100s. I'm questioning the 1000s of eggs as many claim, maybe hundred tops. I only get hundreds with multiple females berried at the same time.
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post #29 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 04:13 AM Thread Starter
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I had one successful batch of 20 last year and will attempt again once it gets warmer to avoid having to heat it.

The post success attempts have been poor and even using the same methods did not yield the same results. I used diatoms only and live phyto nannochloropsis (sp) and noticed that overly green water usually ends up with losses, I don't feed the tank either but the 24 hour and live phyto usually grows too quickly. I perform a water change to thin the algae. The post batches were more than 20. As they get into the later stages, you don't need 24 hour lighting from the batch that survived.

I had created a thread and video documented the larval growth from hatching to as far as I could get before they died. I want to eventually finish it up and document the full life cycle from hatching to post. I have most of their life cycle documented from my iPhone but want to get the close up view of full life cycle with my DSLR setup

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...ching-egg.html

Just reading what people are doing, it isn't something that I'm doing differently so I just wonder how Chappy has such great repeatable results and especially for not having any live phyto. I can't even say having a good amount of diatoms is an indicator you'll succeed since I haven't been able to replicate it. The post success batches I had were much larger like over 100s. I'm questioning the 1000s of eggs as many claim, maybe hundred tops. I only get hundreds with multiple females berried at the same time.
Congrats on having some success and thanks for coming to the thread! I checked out the video you have of the egg hatching and it was pretty cool to see it that clearly. So to clarify are you saying that the batch you had 20 survivors, you did not have 24 hour lighting? Assuming that you are referring to the topic of the fry dying if the lights are turned off (lights off, lights out haha). Also I am confused because it seems like you say you had the 20 survivors and batches afterwards was poor but then say the later batches were better? Or when you say more 100s you are meaning hatched eggs and not morphed shrimp? Anyways I completely agree with you on the egg count, Have read that the mother can hold thousands yet my mother looks pretty filled underneath and its like 300 so... Maybe we misread or have smaller shrimp? Also have you tried without live phyto? Again thank you for sharing the eggs hatching, I enjoyed watching that.

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post #30 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 12:23 PM
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My one successful go-round (I use 'success' sparingly here, because it was a highly limited success) I did not have 24hr light. I had good survival up to day 20-30 or so, and was feeding pinhead-sized amounts of brewers yeast, and lights were 6am-9pm, or so. I suspect the losses I encountered with that batch were related to salinity, and foul water.
Anyone else observe in Chappy's vids that his salt jars were quite messy? There seemed to be lots of detritus on the bottom of his salt jar.
Another thing that isn't discussed is whether the salt jars/tanks need to be a bit mature. I'd hazard to guess that it's not a requirement (because I had that limited success with a newly-set up jar), but I would also imagine that some level of maturity in those jars would be very beneficial. For those of you that have done this more than once, do you keep the same salt jar running, or start fresh with each batch?
Here's some quick pics of my setup. It's shockingly different from Symstep's.
Mach_Six you might recognize these from that other forum.
The 3 jars in the water bath tank are (left to right): 1 gal salt jar for zoes; "experiment" salt jar with a bunch of algae from the live rock tank at lfs (1L mason jar, no air), reserve saltwater jar, for next water change (1L mason jar, lid to prevent evap).
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