New 29 gal planted tank (future Shrimp home)GH, KH, TDS issues - The Planted Tank Forum
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 12:56 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Northville, MI
Posts: 34
New 29 gal planted tank (future Shrimp home)GH, KH, TDS issues

Hi, my name is Justin. I set up a 29 gal tank 2 weeks ago. I live in an apartment complex, and none of our faucets have the screw in component, so I couldn't use that adapter for an RO unit. My complex won't allow for any permanent RO unit instillation, and I don't yet feel confident in my plumbing ability to alter the sink plumbing. (Once I do enough research in that subject, I will likely install an RO unit to my sink plumbing). I also don't live near a LFS that sells freshwater. So, for now at least, I'm using tap water. I added water conditioner (with dechlorinater) to the tap water.

I used Fluval shrimp stratum and Eco complete as the substrate. I also have a large piece of mopani wood and a pile of rocks from a LFS for a shrimp hide. For plants, I have 3 moss balls from an established tank, 1 anubia, 2 amazon swords, 3 java ferns, and 5 plants (2 of one and 3 of another) whose names I can't remember. Over the past week, I have seen a large amount of bio film covering the wood and back glass panel of the tank. Water parameters have settled, so I have added 5 nerite snails, 7 chili rasbora, 3 ember tetra, and 3 tetra that are the same size as the embers, but silver colored.

I'm using an Aquaclear 30 with the intake extension to reach lower in the tank. Intake is covered by s Fluval edge foam piece. I'm using 2 aquaclear 30 sponges and some of the biomax inside the filter. For lighting, I have 2 18" Current Plus Pro lights. I have one of the lights running for 10 hours a day, and the other for 6 (comes on 2 hrs after, and turns off 2 hours before the other).

I have a heater set to 70, as a backup. We live in Metro Detroit (but closer to Ann Arbor). So, it's only recently begun to warm up. Over the winter, we keep the apartment at 68. In the summer, apartment temps can be between 72 and 74. I've heard that shrimp can be relatively adaptable to temperatures, as long as the changes are very gradual. I've paid close attention of the past 2 weeks, and the digital thermometer shows that tank temps range from 73.0 at night to 73.9 in the middle of the day. Should I just remove the heater?

My tap water parameters: Chlorine- between 0 and .25 to.50 ppm.
KH- 4
GH- 6
TDS- 109
pH- 7.6

My current tank water parameters: Chlorine- 0
KH- 1 (turned yellow after 1 drop)
GH- 3
TDS- 82
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0
pH- 6.8

I assume that the substrate and maybe mopani wood buffered the water significantly. I really want to keep shrimp in the tank, and that's the reason I set up the tank. I don't plan to breed (for sale) the shrimp, but would also like to have a thriving colony. I had orginally planned to keep neocaridinia, as I've never kept freshwater fish before. I've read a lot on this forum, and watched a lot of videos on youtube. While I like the appearance of the caridinia species, it seems that neocaridinia tend to be more hardy. However, my tank parameters don't seem to currently fit the needs of either genus. Would doing small water changes, and replacing the water with RO re mineralized with Salty Shrimp GH+ or GH+/KH+ be the best way to reach the parameters that I need?

Out of the Neocaridinia, I like Cherry, Bloody mary, Black rose, and fantasy blue.

Out of the caridinia, I like crystal red and crystal blacks and the red tigers. I don't think I'm at all ready for any of the taiwan bees or other more delicate caridinias. As I don't plan to breed for sale, what can be kept together in a single tank without problems arising?

What species would make more sense to keep in my tank, based off the parameters I listed? With my starting point, would re mineralization be too difficult to keep any of the species?

I would also like to keep Thai micro crabs, lesser long nose shrimp, and a bamboo fan shrimp if those would be compatible?

Sorry for all of the questions, and thanks in advance for your help.
insaneglitchx is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 01:30 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Maryland Guppy's Avatar
 
PTrader: (15/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Arnold
Posts: 3,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by insaneglitchx View Post
I live in an apartment complex, and none of our faucets have the screw in component, so I couldn't use that adapter for an RO unit. My complex won't allow for any permanent RO unit instillation, and I don't yet feel confident in my plumbing ability to alter the sink plumbing.
Hello Justin!

Food for thought think about the shower head in the bathroom!
I mix two Brute cans as needed and then put the shower head back on.
1 can gets nothing for top-offs and the other is mineralized to my needs.

Looking for a quick release something in my near future for this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Growing is not that difficult.

Last edited by Maryland Guppy; 04-27-2018 at 01:31 AM. Reason: edit
Maryland Guppy is offline  
post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 03:13 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zoidburg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,977
Personally, no shrimp species.

The substrates are probably fighting against each other, with the Fluval winning... but you don't want to use tap water on a buffering substrate.


If you live near a grocery store, then you can buy RO water or distilled - then add GH minerals.
Zoidburg is offline  
 
post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Northville, MI
Posts: 34
Seeing as my tap water has very small amounts of chlorine, what is the best way to dechlorinate smaller amounts of water? The bottle says 1 capful per 55gal... not very useful if the volume I'm treating is less than 5 gal.

Yeah, I'll probably remineralize 5 gal buckets of water of time in one bucket, and buy jugs of Distilled water for top offs.

I suppose that I could just buy large jugs of DI water at the grocery store, at least until I can figure out a more reasonable long term solution to move away from tap water. I'm in no hurry to add shrimp. I have a very busy May schedule. I also want the tank to be more mature.

How do I know whether to use GH+/KH+ or only GH+ salty shrimp, based on my parameters? And based on my parameters, Is it still easy to get the GH and KH within whatever limits I want for either neocaridinia or caridinia? Or, does it look like it would be too difficult to keep one or the other?

Thanks for responding so fast!
insaneglitchx is offline  
post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 04:19 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zoidburg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,977
Fluval is a buffering substrate, which means that it lowers the ph of the water and absorbs KH from the water column. By using tap water or anything that ads KH to the tank, you are effectively causing unstable water parameters... which shrimp don't like.

The faster you move away from tap water, the better - otherwise, scrap the Fluval for inert substrate and keep on using tap water. Something like Seachem Equilibrium would work fine for Neos - just bump up the GH to 7-8 to be on the safe side.
Zoidburg is offline  
post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 11:38 AM
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 4
Perhaps this could work to help solve the faucet problem. I purchased an RODI unit that had a garden hose adapter, that would work with this https://www.amazon.com/Claber-8583-I...+water+adapter
LauraR is offline  
post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Northville, MI
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
Fluval is a buffering substrate, which means that it lowers the ph of the water and absorbs KH from the water column. By using tap water or anything that ads KH to the tank, you are effectively causing unstable water parameters... which shrimp don't like.

The faster you move away from tap water, the better - otherwise, scrap the Fluval for inert substrate and keep on using tap water. Something like Seachem Equilibrium would work fine for Neos - just bump up the GH to 7-8 to be on the safe side.

I just bought a large bottle of Seachem Equilibrium and 3 gal of ro/di for a water change. Once I figure out a more permanent solution for RO water, I'll do that. For now, I guess I'll add the Seachem to the water change water.


Slowly, I'll bring the parameters to the right levels. I've done a lot more reading, and it kind of sounds like CRS would be bit more suited to this tank than Neos. Is that correct?

I would like to eventually keep more than one type of shrimp together. I've read that Amano and certain tigers can do well in the same parameters as CRS, and that they won't interbrees. Is that right?

https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/...ter-parameters

Does this look like a reasonable list of parameters?

Last edited by Darkblade48; 05-03-2018 at 04:37 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts
insaneglitchx is offline  
post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 10:15 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by insaneglitchx View Post
Slowly, I'll bring the parameters to the right levels. I've done a lot more reading, and it kind of sounds like CRS would be bit more suited to this tank than Neos. Is that correct?

I would like to eventually keep more than one type of shrimp together. I've read that Amano and certain tigers can do well in the same parameters as CRS, and that they won't interbrees. Is that right?
At first, caridina species will do okay. Long term, it's not ideal. As Zoidburg has been telling you, continuing to add tap water to that substrate will quickly wear out the buffering ability of Stratum... probably right around the time females become berried. Baby shrimp are unlikely to survive long term. You may have some luck keeping some of the CRS/CBS alive but they are unlikely to breed successfully. Being mixed with eco complete further dilutes the overall buffering capability of your tank.

R/O water should be used from day one if you are planning to keep caridinas in there unless you have tap water with barely any carbonates/bicarbonates. Otherwise, you should probably just wait it out. Eventually your tank will be suitable for neos and maybe even certain tiger species once KH starts rising. You could speed up the process by adding baking soda. Some people have reported exhausting the substrate within a week by doing this.

You could keep amanos, neos and tigers together without interbreeding but keeping acceptable parameters for each of them might prove to be difficult.
madcrafted is offline  
post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 01:47 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Northville, MI
Posts: 34
So, I just did a 4 gal water change. I added 1/4 teaspoon of Seachem Equilibrium to 4 gal of Distilled water. This brought the treated water to a TDS of 188, KH of 3, and GH of 7. I haven't yet measured the parameters of the tank, as I assume that it takes a while for these levels to settle down.

The fluval shrimp stratum and eco complete are already in the planted tank, and I originally filled the tank with tap water. I'm not going to remove the substrate. So, is there any better plan than to slowly increase the TDS, KH, and GH of the tank by doing water changed with re mineralized RO water? Eventually, shouldn't the proportion shift towards RO water? If I switch to only using RO water from now on, for top offs and for water changes, won't I eventually get to parameters that will work? I don't think I would want to completely remove the substrate in 2 years after the buffering capacity wears out. I'm sure I sped it up using the substrate I used anyway. So, adding Baking soda is a good bet? Is that a better option than just slowly raising the TDS, GH, and KH through water changes? Should I do both?
insaneglitchx is offline  
post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 01:53 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zoidburg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,977
Discobee's page is a good general guideline - however, Neos can handle harder water.

CRS and Tigers will hybridize, but Amanos wont with any other species. Set up right, yes, the tank might be better for Caridina over Neos, but Neos may be able to do okay in it as well. I've never used Fluval, and from all that I heard, I wouldn't recommend it either. Just my personal take on it.
Zoidburg is offline  
post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Northville, MI
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
Discobee's page is a good general guideline - however, Neos can handle harder water.

CRS and Tigers will hybridize, but Amanos wont with any other species. Set up right, yes, the tank might be better for Caridina over Neos, but Neos may be able to do okay in it as well. I've never used Fluval, and from all that I heard, I wouldn't recommend it either. Just my personal take on it.
I just want to remedy the situation, and make the most of what I have. I could eliminate the buffering capacity of the fluval somehow. How does the baking soda process work? I could then slowly raise the TDS, GH, and KH with Seachem Equilibrium treated RO water. Once I get those parameters in place, I should be set, right?

Is the baking soda treatment safe for the snails and fish that I have in there? I have nerite snails, otocinclus, ember tetras, gold tetras, and chili rasbora. Again, not really wanting to take anything too fast. Rather take it slow and not shock the snails and fish.
insaneglitchx is offline  
post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 02:33 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zoidburg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,977
Wouldn't recommend exhausting the substrate with inhabitants in there, but if you keep adding KH (keeping it steady around 3-5 at least) until it can no longer buffer and the pH stays steady then you could use tap or GH and KH in the tank without worry about unstable parameters. I'm not sure how long it takes to exhaust it though.
Zoidburg is offline  
post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 02:52 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Northville, MI
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
Wouldn't recommend exhausting the substrate with inhabitants in there, but if you keep adding KH (keeping it steady around 3-5 at least) until it can no longer buffer and the pH stays steady then you could use tap or GH and KH in the tank without worry about unstable parameters. I'm not sure how long it takes to exhaust it though.
Thanks, I think I'll just use remineralized RO water from now on and go from there.

I watched a few youtube videos regarding under sink ro unit installation. Really don't want to plumb into that. For now, I'm ok with just buying jugs of RO water.

For a longer term solution, what do you think of LauraR's faucet adapter solution? None of my faucets have removable aerators or screw in slots. If this looks viable, then I may be in business. What is a good basic RO system? I would be using it only for top offs and water changes on a 29gal tank. So, nothing crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraR View Post
Perhaps this could work to help solve the faucet problem. I purchased an RODI unit that had a garden hose adapter, that would work with this https://www.amazon.com/Claber-8583-I...+water+adapter
insaneglitchx is offline  
post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 02:04 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zoidburg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,977
If you have soft water, RO Buddy is pretty popular, however the replacement cartridges can be just as expensive as the unit. After that, BulkReefSupply sells more expensive units (cheaper cartridge replacements). There's some other brands out there as well.

I've never used the faucet adapter that Laura mentioned, however it seems like it could be a good method to use if you have a facet to spare for several hours and it would fit onto the faucet.
Zoidburg is offline  
post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 08:37 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
kaldurak's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver WA
Posts: 697
Every faucet has a removable aerator and an adapter (or two) exist that will fit the threading of the aerator and adapt to the threading you need for the python.

My tank journal.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
kaldurak is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome