Nerite Shell Tip Decay - The Planted Tank Forum
 2Likes
  • 2 Post By Surf
  • 2 Post By fermentedhiker
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 05:14 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Teebo's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,516
Question Nerite Shell Tip Decay

I have kept Nerites for several years now, and I never had a problem with them until the last year or so. The very tip of the shell that is suppose to come to a bit of a point (where the new growth is?) has decay, or failure to grow. I thought for a long time it was a calcium deficiency but I add SaltyShrimp GH/KH to my RODI water keeping my KH around 30ppm. I have never really been able to get the Nerites to eat anything, I have even made elaborate batches of snail jello with no affect...they seem to just like a staple diet of glass algae, and I have no wood in my tank for them to munch on as in previous tanks they chewed up my driftwood pretty well. I thought about dropping in a few pieces of cuttlebone for them to consume but now I am wondering if this is a pH problem since a lower pH would be acidic. Can the pH be stabilized with baking soda to add alkalinity the same way I do with my pool and spa?

I found "premium" Nerite snails that I want to buy but not until I solve my problem. The premiums have red in the shell and really cool designs at a dwarf size like the Horned Nerite. They are also referred to as the Red Racer Nerite.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Teebo is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 05:55 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
roadmaster's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Missouri united states
Posts: 5,576
You say you have kept the Nerites for year's now without issues, but later you say you have never been able to get them to eat anything.
This suggests either you have attempted to keep them for year's without much success over long haul,or the snail's were/are finding their primary food source which is algae in you previous tank (s) but not finding what they need in present tank.
Many of the Nerites it seems, need a bit of salinity along with Calcium and Magnesium for shell development, and I might experiment with Marine salt at maybe 1/4 of suggested % for salt water tanks.(provides calcium and magnesium +salt)
If you have a Mature tank of some month's old, with some algae and or biofilm readily available,along with wood and or stones where more biofilm or algae along with infusoria also tend's to exist,then Nerites could very well be finding food's despite you not seeing them take other food's with algae content?
I do not think soft R/O water for the Nerites is working well now from what has been posted and would want to see if more basic water and a bit of salt might not reveal better result's over long haul.
Many folk's claim to keep this species or that species of fish or invert's in wildly varying water but maybe not for long despite
what they say.

P.S. Nerites not particularly long lived but if you can get them to produce young ,or purchase younger specimen's,then perhaps you can enjoy them longer.
I would want to hedge my bet by providing repeatable good result's rather than sketchy to maybe.
Just sayin.
If very different now,,
Maybe you just need to go back to what has worked better in the past?

Last edited by roadmaster; 04-12-2018 at 11:46 AM. Reason: additional thought's
roadmaster is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 10:46 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Warren, Maine
Posts: 483
When you say you were never really able to get them to eat, do you mean that in the past they slowly starved or that you just never observed them eating things you offered them to supplement their diet? Nerites are nocturnal feeders for the most part so during the day you won't see a lot of action. Also if the tank has sufficient biofilm for their needs they wouldn't necessarily accept your alternate food source.

What is your PH? Are you running CO2?

The pointy tip at the end would be the oldest growth and once damaged isn't likely to be repaired, at least on the outside of the shell.

I'm not sure what roadmaster is referring to with regard to short life span. I've had both fancy nerites and olive ones for years so I would say they last at least as long as your average tetra. Also Nerite eggs don't hatch in freshwater so you can't have nerite babies develop

"Not my circus, not my monkeys"
fermentedhiker is offline  
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 11:35 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
roadmaster's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Missouri united states
Posts: 5,576
2 yrs old is expected lifespan in the aquarium according to most literature or research I could find when I once tried my hand at keeping them in 12 dgh with pH around 7.6 and temps around 76 degree's F.
I had no issues with shell erosion or development,but they clearly showed preference to old wood pieces and existing algae over prepared food's I offered.(once algae was gone)
I was drawn to this topic or thread for I am contemplating setting up a tank for Plecos I raise and Hillstream loaches along with some nerites later this summer.
Am near expert at growing all manner of algae(when needed), so maybe shall see if previous snails died of old age ,or lack of primary food.
roadmaster is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Teebo's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
You say you have kept the Nerites for year's now without issues, but later you say you have never been able to get them to eat anything.
This suggests either you have attempted to keep them for year's without much success over long haul,or the snail's were/are finding their primary food source which is algae in you previous tank (s) but not finding what they need in present tank.
Many of the Nerites it seems, need a bit of salinity along with Calcium and Magnesium for shell development, and I might experiment with Marine salt at maybe 1/4 of suggested % for salt water tanks.(provides calcium and magnesium +salt)
If you have a Mature tank of some month's old, with some algae and or biofilm readily available,along with wood and or stones where more biofilm or algae along with infusoria also tend's to exist,then Nerites could very well be finding food's despite you not seeing them take other food's with algae content?
I do not think soft R/O water for the Nerites is working well now from what has been posted and would want to see if more basic water and a bit of salt might not reveal better result's over long haul.
Many folk's claim to keep this species or that species of fish or invert's in wildly varying water but maybe not for long despite
what they say.

P.S. Nerites not particularly long lived but if you can get them to produce young ,or purchase younger specimen's,then perhaps you can enjoy them longer.
I would want to hedge my bet by providing repeatable good result's rather than sketchy to maybe.
Just sayin.
If very different now,,
Maybe you just need to go back to what has worked better in the past?
Okay lots of confusion here, I end up breaking down tanks after a year and giving snails away to friends, etc. Within a year span or so the snail seem to do well but within that same span lately they are developing shell problems. The only connection I am making between shell problems and my different setups is that driftwood seems to help their shells, they seem to literally eat the wood. My current tank with shell problems is an "Iwagumi" with no wood, just a stone hardscape.

Regarding your salt suggestion I would not even consider that with my fully established HC carpet I am not taking any chances. However I will do a calcium test on my tank and see what the readings are, I have nothing to read magnesium but I know the Flourish I add has both calcium and magnesium traces.

Biofilm and algae are certainly present for food, I do not see them eating the biofilm ring at the surface at all but they literally clean the glass every night I never have to clean my glass. Even in tanks with wood they still kept the glass clean, I swear they love algae on smooth surfaces because they do not really clean my rough rocks.

I did read that their aquarium lifespan is not greater than 2 years but in the wild they can live up to a decade so something is wrong with that to me and I do purchase younger Nerites due to this reason. I may have to hide some wood out of sight for them to eat because the Zucchini even frozen just falls apart and makes a mess, they do not seem attracted to it and the shrimp just end up making a mess with it then it becomes impossible to pick up. Some claim theirs eat bottom feeder tablets but I have never had any success with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fermentedhiker View Post
When you say you were never really able to get them to eat, do you mean that in the past they slowly starved or that you just never observed them eating things you offered them to supplement their diet? Nerites are nocturnal feeders for the most part so during the day you won't see a lot of action. Also if the tank has sufficient biofilm for their needs they wouldn't necessarily accept your alternate food source.

What is your PH? Are you running CO2?

The pointy tip at the end would be the oldest growth and once damaged isn't likely to be repaired, at least on the outside of the shell.

I'm not sure what roadmaster is referring to with regard to short life span. I've had both fancy nerites and olive ones for years so I would say they last at least as long as your average tetra. Also Nerite eggs don't hatch in freshwater so you can't have nerite babies develop
I went through a period where I offered them everything under the sun and I never observed them eating anything, I even gave them homemade "snail jello" and they favored the algae on the glass instead. If you drop one into a tank you can not even see through the glass it will clear the glass overnight I have seen it done before which makes me think they are always being starved. My glass may stay clear but under close examination the glass has different track patterns every day. When you say biofilm I do occasionally feed my shrimp "Bacter AE" so it is certainly present in my tank.

I am not running CO2 but I use Excel. ahh pH this is something I apparently always thought I was above testing and I waited to post this so I could collect some data on my pH. I seem to have a pH swing of 0.3 with an average of 7.5-7.6 I tested right before the lights went out for the night and I got 7.7 then tests right before the lights come on in the morning showed 7.4 so that seems neutral. However tests on my RODI top off water show it @ 6.0-6.4 and I think that may be a problem in itself but not related to the stability of my snails?

The fish I keep should be kept at a max of 7.5, the shrimp 7.4, and Nerites 6.5-8.2? Seems like 7.0 would be a good tank target right??

I did read that the tip will not repair itself and I always thought the tip was the newest growth, a common fix seems to be....superglue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
2 yrs old is expected lifespan in the aquarium according to most literature or research I could find when I once tried my hand at keeping them in 12 dgh with pH around 7.6 and temps around 76 degree's F.
I had no issues with shell erosion or development,but they clearly showed preference to old wood pieces and existing algae over prepared food's I offered.(once algae was gone)
I was drawn to this topic or thread for I am contemplating setting up a tank for Plecos I raise and Hillstream loaches along with some nerites later this summer.
Am near expert at growing all manner of algae(when needed), so maybe shall see if previous snails died of old age ,or lack of primary food.
Funny you say this, I found the same results. They seem to live longer in cooler water, but I keep my tanks @ 78F. I will choose Nerites over Plecos for keeping my glass clean any day, unless its a larger tank.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Teebo is online now  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-09-2018, 06:01 AM
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,300
Animals and plants have different nutrient needs. Most people focus on plant growth. But in addition to plant nutrients animals need Sodium, iodine and possibly a few more but in only trace levels. I have seen iodine deficiency in shrimp and corrected that with iodine. And recently in another post a person found the only way he could keep his nertis and shrimp alive was to stop dosing Potassium Bicarbonate and switching to Sodium Bicarbonate.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88...e-inverts.html

Quote:
Regarding your salt suggestion I would not even consider that with my fully established HC carpet I am not taking any chances.
Low concentrations of salt is not harmful to plants. Also many GH boosters in wide spread use in planted aquarium are a mix calcium and magnesium chloride salts. And these salts are know to damage plants. Its not the chlorine that is dangerous, instead it is the concentration. If the concentration is too high the plant will be harmed.

I have dosed NaCl at 5ppm andI have not seen any harmful effects at such low levels.

Quote:
However tests on my RODI top off water show it @ 6.0-6.4 and I think that may be a problem in itself but not related to the stability of my snails?
This could explain the erosion of the shell of the snail. Boosting the PH of the RO with a little bit of sodium bicarbonate before it is added to the tank would eliminate this possibility.

Note Tampa bay water quality report shows 80ppm of sodium which is apparently from salt water infusion into the aquifer. I wonder how may house plants have been killed by that.

https://www.tampagov.net/sites/defau...s/wqr2017w.pdf
Teebo and Teebo like this.

Last edited by Darkblade48; 05-10-2018 at 08:34 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
Surf is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 01:56 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Warren, Maine
Posts: 483
@Teebo your PH seems fine. RODI typically tests slightly acidic so you're fine there as well. GH/KH would be my next suspicion but you said you already use salty shrimp to remineralize so I'm at a bit of a loss. To be honest the fancy ones are nice but the olive ones are the best algae eaters and hardiest IME.
Teebo and Teebo like this.

"Not my circus, not my monkeys"
fermentedhiker is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Teebo's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,516
I have actually recently witnessed both my snails on the rocks, so I know they are being open to more surface area.

The snails I had without issues to my knowledge, were in a tank I was dosing the same Seachem Potassium in back then. I need to hide some wood in there asap

Do you mean iodide or iodine? I actually have an invert iodide thread somewhere, where people swore it off as a marine factor. I used to use it when I first started and stopped using it (iodide) but I saw no problems with breeding RCS.

This may be a very slow process of observing results, the decay is really starting to accelerate though. I assume if there are salts in my SaltyShrimp (go figure) than that in itself should be covering my sodium factor right? Even though Tampa has a bad water report, I live about an hour away where we have a better water system but don't the salts get removed if I am using RODI?

Even though the pH of my RODI is low, it does not seem to change the tanks level at all even when I do a 20% water change.

I have never seen Olive snails for sale, will they turn my substrate? I do not want substrate snails.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Teebo is online now  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 03:47 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Teebo's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,516
Still pondering this, here are some photos of the rapid damage. For starters I noticed my striped horned Nerite is completely changing shell patterns and shape. You can see the transition line where the black stripes are vanishing as new single colored shell is growing. The overall shape of my snails is also changing, they are no longer as round...they seem to be oval with a more flat back. I am really getting concerned about the snail in the photo because the erosion of the tip is progressing at such a fast pace now that I can see orange flesh color, is this his body color!? I am thinking about bringing it to the best fish store in Tampa and asking them to house it before I am responsible for its death. I just do not understand this, they have been feasting on biofilm for a while now since I bumped up the amount of Bacter AE I was adding to the point I needed to add a surface skimming inflow tube.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Teebo is online now  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome