Red Rili Shrimp VS Red Cherry Shrimp - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-02-2018, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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Question Red Rili Shrimp VS Red Cherry Shrimp

Hey everyone,

i'm new to the hobby, couple days ago i posted in this forum about a tank that i made right now for past week, and on the process of maturing it, and right now, i'm still do my research about what type of shrimp that newbie friendly.

so far, theres 2 type of shrimp that suit my need, Amano and Red Cherry Shrimp, and after lot of digging again on google and my local online shop, found out that Cherry Shrimp (Neocaradina genus) have lot of type, theres Red Rili, Black Choco (at least what they called it here) etc

but after further googling, it seems theres not much discussion about it, in appereance wise i much prefer the Red Rili one, but does all neocaridina care is the same ? , i do find an article that literally said "not all neocaridina care are same" but no further detail about it, anyone can elaborate me a bit about it ?

thank you in advance

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 04:31 PM
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In my experience, all dwarf shrimp are fragile. Seems like people are really hesitant to say that for some reason. Maybe because they are advanced aquarists to begin with. But starting out with shrimp is more difficult than starting with fish, no matter what breed of shrimp you get. Amanos are probably the toughest, but they don't breed in freshwater so that's a no for me. If you're still maturing your tank, please put snails into it! I like mystery snails but it probably doesn't matter that much. Snails are relatively tough and change the water chemistry to your extreme benefit. Anyways I would start with red cherries, since they're cheap. You're going to feel really bad if you buy expensive shrimp and they die. Cherries are supposed to be tougher but for a total beginner, they can still be far too fragile. I'm not going to go over everything you need to know, but my advice is SNAILS and a 20 gallon tank at the least!
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 05:10 PM
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To have success with raising/breeding shrimp, you should have a basic understanding of water chemistry. It's not that they are hard to raise, it's more like they have a hard time adjusting to different water conditions. I would purchase shrimp based on the water parameters I have. Most neos can breed outside their ideal range, as long as water is stable.

A few tips for survival rates:

(1)introduce to a mature tank with lots of biofilm
(2) purchase juvenile shrimp no larger than 3/4" (1/2" is preferable)
(3) drip acclimate them
(4) provide places of refuge (caves, dense vegetation, cholla "wood", moss tubes, etc.)
(5) feed diverse blend of food (in small amounts)
(6) do small 10- 20 % water changes only as needed (i use a TDS pen to determine that)
(7) top off with r/o or distilled water only
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 12:41 AM
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Ditto with what KleineVampir and madcrafted had to say above. I lost most of my first batch of shrimp (and I had good water parameters and followed the suggested procedures). I wish I would have started with a neo shrimp like Red Cherries. I would also have waited till the tank matured longer.

In answer to you question, from what I have read, most of the neocaridina (neo shrimp) like the Red Cherry shrimp take similar parameters - and they can adapt to a wide variety of water conditions if they are slowly acclimated to the water (and it helps to start with smaller shrimp as they seem to adapt better). Like you, I am a novice at this and learning. Good luck!

P.S. I like both the Red Rili and the Red Cherry shrimp!
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 01:36 AM
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I'm going to go in the complete opposite direction of the previous two posts in regards to RCS. This does not apply to other shrimp species like crystal reds, etc.

I've found that the RCS are incredibly hardy and are almost like mini, underwater cockroaches (e.g. tough to kill). I run CO2 in my tank and do a weekly 50-60% water change using very hard tap water. Furthermore I also regularly dose metricide and I spot treat with H202 as well. About two weeks ago our house was tented for termites. I cleared out most of the plants and all of the livestock with the exception of the RCS and a single otto that somehow managed to stay in hiding until it was too late to relocate them. Many of the plants suffered badly through tenting (buces, crypts, anubias). Sadly the otto did not survive as well. However, almost all of the RCS survived and are still thriving.

Just my personal experiences...

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdwindansea View Post
I'm going to go in the complete opposite direction of the previous two posts in regards to RCS. This does not apply to other shrimp species like crystal reds, etc.

I've found that the RCS are incredibly hardy and are almost like mini, underwater cockroaches (e.g. tough to kill). I run CO2 in my tank and do a weekly 50-60% water change using very hard tap water. Furthermore I also regularly dose metricide and I spot treat with H202 as well. About two weeks ago our house was tented for termites. I cleared out most of the plants and all of the livestock with the exception of the RCS and a single otto that somehow managed to stay in hiding until it was too late to relocate them. Many of the plants suffered badly through tenting (buces, crypts, anubias). Sadly the otto did not survive as well. However, almost all of the RCS survived and are still thriving.

Just my personal experiences...
Yeah but how long have you been in aquatics? For a complete noobie, having never cared for a fish or anything...you'd probably be surprised at how many shrimp somebody could kill!
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 09:41 PM
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H2o2 kills shrimp... And moss... A lot of them... Personal experience... Sad moments

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 12:08 AM
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It also has a lot to do with the stock of shrimp you're buying. As Shrimpalot56 said small ones are better. Mature shrimp don't travel well or adapt as well to different parameters. Young ones are much more resilient.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdwindansea View Post
I'm going to go in the complete opposite direction of the previous two posts in regards to RCS. This does not apply to other shrimp species like crystal reds, etc.

I've found that the RCS are incredibly hardy and are almost like mini, underwater cockroaches (e.g. tough to kill). I run CO2 in my tank and do a weekly 50-60% water change using very hard tap water. Furthermore I also regularly dose metricide and I spot treat with H202 as well. About two weeks ago our house was tented for termites. I cleared out most of the plants and all of the livestock with the exception of the RCS and a single otto that somehow managed to stay in hiding until it was too late to relocate them. Many of the plants suffered badly through tenting (buces, crypts, anubias). Sadly the otto did not survive as well. However, almost all of the RCS survived and are still thriving.

Just my personal experiences...

So true. I've seen RCS thrive in every kind of tank imaginable, both high tech and low. Them and amanos both. Tough rascals. While my suggestions were geared more towards CRS and bees, most of the same principles apply. RCS water parameters can shift a bit more without much issues. It's common to see them do fine in tanks that get 50% of their water changed weekly. Not a big deal. Not so much for caridinas.

One thing I would still do before placing my shrimps (any species) in my tank is to have my parameters close to what they were living in where they were purchased. Most reputable breeders will list their parameters. If not, I buy from them from someone that does. This step alone will save a majority, if not all of your stock. By the time you do water change or 3, they will have acclimated to your water source and be good to go.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KleineVampir View Post
Yeah but how long have you been in aquatics? For a complete noobie, having never cared for a fish or anything...you'd probably be surprised at how many shrimp somebody could kill!
I probably killed over 40 shrimps so far.

Bought 10 red rili with none dying for two weeks.

Then I got 15 red sakura, not long after my shrimp start dying but found baby shrimps in tank.

Got 20 blue rili while the shrimps in tank were dropping almost every day which was probably a bad idea.

Tried to stop them for a month while on average one new death each day. I gave up trying to figure out what killed them after that.

Then the shrimp continued to die until suddenly it stopped. I had only less than 10 shrimps left but no more dead shrimps for two weeks.

The shrimps that survived are from the first, second and third batch. One or two of each variant..

Two days ago, I got 30 blue velvet shrimps to add to the tank. So far seem like they're okay.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 02:07 AM
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"Everyone" says that Neos "do fine in tapwater". Huh... that's funny! They die in mine! Slowly, but surely.

"But once the babies hatch in your water, they'll practically be indestructible!" Nope... babies never survived to adult-hood.

Copper? Nope. Ammonia? Nitrites? Nitrates? Nope. Chlorine? Chloramines? No yet again.

Water too hard? Actually, quite the opposite... it's too soft.

You could blame it on the source of shrimp. The first two came from a pet store, but the female actually survived rather long compared to the others that came after her. Most of the other shrimp came from a local breeder. Same/similar tap waters. So they'd do fine, right? No, yet again.... still died even from the local breeder! (or, rather, hobbyist)


Even after correcting water parameters, I still struggled to keep them alive. It wasn't until after over a year of keeping them that I finally started having a population boom... the one that many people talk about that occurs within 3-6 months of keeping shrimp. Then the colonies got poisoned... twice... first by something that wasn't microwaveable safe... and second by neighbors bug bombing their place. It's now 9 months later, finally having that population boom again... but then again, the tanks were pretty neglected during that time frame.... so now I'm over 2 years of having shrimp... and if nothing goes wrong, that population boom will continue to grow.



So from my own experience, I haven't found them to be all that hardy...
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 04:17 AM
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I completely agree that everyone's experiences are going to be completely different regarding RCS. Also, I would trust the advice from @Zoidburg 150% more than anything I would give. He's helped me so much over the last year and a half (yes, that's is a huge thanks again).

As I said above, I've been successful with RCS and I think a lot of it has to do with luck as well. One thing I do know is that I keep very stable water parameters. Very little changes, even when doing a 50% weekly water change. I'm sure that has a lot to do with why it has worked for me. Furthermore, I added the RCS after I had a relatively mature tank (several months after the initial cycle) and the shrimp I purchased were from the same water parameters I'm running. All of this is to point out they are not as difficult as some would have you believe but at the same time you need to have a stable and mature tank. If you want to try them and think you are ready go for it.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 06:39 AM
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I've had RCS in outdoor container ponds absolutely thrive, even into colder weather. Something about being outside made them rival the best painted fire reds (they were in the pond because they were culls for poor color). If you've got the shrimp and pond to spare, I'd say try it at least once with some culls.

Alternatively, sometimes I struggle to keep them in my tanks. They simply live, but don't breed.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghen View Post
Hey everyone,

i'm new to the hobby, couple days ago i posted in this forum about a tank that i made right now for past week, and on the process of maturing it, and right now, i'm still do my research about what type of shrimp that newbie friendly.

so far, theres 2 type of shrimp that suit my need, Amano and Red Cherry Shrimp, and after lot of digging again on google and my local online shop, found out that Cherry Shrimp (Neocaradina genus) have lot of type, theres Red Rili, Black Choco (at least what they called it here) etc

but after further googling, it seems theres not much discussion about it, in appereance wise i much prefer the Red Rili one, but does all neocaridina care is the same ? , i do find an article that literally said "not all neocaridina care are same" but no further detail about it, anyone can elaborate me a bit about it ?

thank you in advance
It seems like we, including myself, have not really been true to the original post. I can't really speak to the differences between neocaradina but I suspect they are all similar. I'd say you need to be able to take care of cherry shrimp first in any case. Amanos are tough, but probably quite different from neo's, so might not be that relevant. Though after taking care of cherries, I feel confident enough to try amanos!

After cherries, I hear crystal reds are the next toughest; meaning they're more fragile than cherries but less fragile than say a king kong or a taiwan bee. You'll have to do research on the specific breed to really know. All I can do is give you the basic overview and a general plan. I'd say get cherries first. They're probably very similar to every other neo's except they're a bit tougher and most importantly, cheaper! Those nice 'show' breeds are great, but they're on another level from cherries. More beautiful but more fragile and expensive. And that even probably means that they're harder to breed as well.

I hope that is speaking more to the spirit of your question!
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-10-2018, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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hey everyone, thanks a lot for all the replies !, didnt know that so many people replied to this thread, for some reason i didnt get email for it, probably forgot to enable it or something

but anyway, in the end i probably will take a leap to Red Rili, like some of you said, it probably wont have much water parameter difference than RCS, but i will check it out again first with the seller, hopefully they also say the same

anyway, regarding of snail, before i put it in, should i acclimate it first like a fish?, or can i just dump it in ?

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