My first attempt at setting up a shrimp tank - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:45 AM
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TDS - Total Dissolved Solids

Doesn't tell you *WHAT* is in the water, only how "clean" or "dirty" it is... aka it reads the electrical conductivity (EC) of the water. RO/DI and rain water should be low TDS, GH and KH. Possibly even 0.

Fresh water and safe drinking water is supposed to have under 1,000 TDS. It's recommended to keep *most* dwarf shrimp at 130-200 TDS, although certain species can handle lower or higher TDS ranges. I've tested water that some cherry shrimp are thriving in and the TDS was over 600! Most people keep them under 300 TDS.


GH - General Hardness
KH - Carbonate Hardness

Basically, mineral content. GH is more important than KH, although KH "controls" pH and helps to stabilize it. (as long as there is nothing to counter it)

If the water is too soft (1-4/5 GH) then the shrimp may not be able to molt properly because their shells are too soft to molt out of. On the flip side, if the water is too hard (15-20+ GH), then their shells may be too hard for them to molt out of.



Aquatic Arts sells imported shrimp. Imported shrimp are kept at Caridina parameters (general idea... 5/6 GH, 0-2 KH, 180-250 TDS, 6.4-6.8 pH). Lets say the breeder of these shrimp live in Taiwan. (there are a lot of breeders there!) First off, your shrimp will be stressed out from being shipped from Taiwan to the USA. They will again be stressed once they reach the resellers location, as they will probably go into holding tanks with different water parameters. The shrimp will be stressed out, once again, when they are then shipped to your home and then acclimated to your tanks. If your parameters are not close to what the shrimp came from, you may have a lot of deaths!

Someone actually recently purchased a 10 pack of Aquatic Arts Assorted Male Neocaridina Pack. She only has 1 shrimp left.

Multiple people have purchased shrimp infected with ellobiopsidae. If you do a search for "green fungus shrimp", you'll see a lot of results! And quite a few of them may even mention Aquatic Arts! They aren't the only ones that sell imported shrimp, but the majority of the people who purchase shrimp with this parasite (not a green fungus!) get their shrimp from Aquatic Arts... Unless you have the right treatment, just assume your shrimp are dead. Most of the recommended treatments to kill the parasite are likely to kill the shrimp in the process as well. If a shrimp is infected too much, treatment wont help. It'll eventually die. I've come across a couple of people who have purchased what they thought were healthy shrimp and 3-6 months later, this parasite showed up in their tanks!

https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/...how-to-cure-it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zrm1COijXM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfFyDb5o4iA


Many imported shrimp are bred in outdoor "ponds", where it may be harder to tell the health of the shrimp. This means that there could be a higher chance for parasites and diseases in general. I don't know if the below shrimp are imports or home bred, but this next video shows a more common parasite seen in Neos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3BHHZHS1ak



Aquatic Arts is not a bad store, as far as I can tell, they have great customer service! I just do not recommend buying imported shrimp from them! Or any reseller of imported shrimp! Joe's Aquarium is another reseller of imported shrimp. I've spoken with a customer who purchased shrimp from Joe's Aquarium, although he purchased 40 shrimp. And he was having a hard time keeping them alive!


Water parameters the shrimp came from (Taiwan?)
pH 7.1~7.5
TDS 200~250
GH 5-8
KH 1~2
Temp. 24~28C"


What the reseller keeps their shrimp in
pH 6.5~6.8
TDS 120-140
GH 3-5
KH 0~1
Temp. 24~26C"


vs His parameters
pH up to 8?
TDS n/a
GH 10
KH ~6
Temp. n/a


Of the 40 shrimp that were purchased, at least 16 were confirmed dead from that shipment based on the last information given. (not just DOA, but also over time in the tank) That's a huge loss! It's not uncommon to purchase 10 shrimp and receive 11 or 12 instead. The extra shrimp are for any potential DOA's... aka "insurance purposes". Unless it gets too hot or too cold, most shrimp typically arrive alive. As long as the water parameters are good, deaths should be few. That is, if you order 10 shrimp and you receive 12, you should expect at least 8-10 to survive acclimation to your tank.



My apologies for such a long winded post! Just trying to stress all the potential issues with imported Neos. (regardless of who you buy them from!) Buying USA bred shrimp does have it's own pitfalls as well, however, if you purchase from a reputable breeder or a great hobbyist, then you can avoid many of these issues!



Since you've never had shrimp before, and if you want the best success at keeping shrimp for the first time, then don't buy imported shrimp! That's all I'm trying to say!


HanAquatics has some nice blue neos for cheaper...
Cobalt Blue - Han Aquatics

Or DLuxe Shrimp
Blue Dream Shrimp
Blue Velvet Shrimp

Lucas Bretz keeps his in higher parameters (not entirely sure what those are, though! although does say currently out of stock)
Buy Freshwater Aquarium shrimp for sale Blue Dream Neocaridina | L.R.Bretz Aquatics
Buy Freshwater Aquarium shrimp for sale BlueVelvet Neocaridina | L.R.Bretz Aquatics



If still available, these may be a great buy!
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/15...eocardina.html

Maybe these instead?
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/15...mp-plants.html


Just make sure they are home bred and not imported. Find out what the water parameters are, and if possible get as close to them as possible. Otherwise, just make sure your parameters are within range for them and drip acclimate!
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
TDS - Total Dissolved Solids

Doesn't tell you *WHAT* is in the water, only how "clean" or "dirty" it is... aka it reads the electrical conductivity (EC) of the water. RO/DI and rain water should be low TDS, GH and KH. Possibly even 0.

Fresh water and safe drinking water is supposed to have under 1,000 TDS. It's recommended to keep *most* dwarf shrimp at 130-200 TDS, although certain species can handle lower or higher TDS ranges. I've tested water that some cherry shrimp are thriving in and the TDS was over 600! Most people keep them under 300 TDS.


GH - General Hardness
KH - Carbonate Hardness

Basically, mineral content. GH is more important than KH, although KH "controls" pH and helps to stabilize it. (as long as there is nothing to counter it)

If the water is too soft (1-4/5 GH) then the shrimp may not be able to molt properly because their shells are too soft to molt out of. On the flip side, if the water is too hard (15-20+ GH), then their shells may be too hard for them to molt out of.



Aquatic Arts sells imported shrimp. Imported shrimp are kept at Caridina parameters (general idea... 5/6 GH, 0-2 KH, 180-250 TDS, 6.4-6.8 pH). Lets say the breeder of these shrimp live in Taiwan. (there are a lot of breeders there!) First off, your shrimp will be stressed out from being shipped from Taiwan to the USA. They will again be stressed once they reach the resellers location, as they will probably go into holding tanks with different water parameters. The shrimp will be stressed out, once again, when they are then shipped to your home and then acclimated to your tanks. If your parameters are not close to what the shrimp came from, you may have a lot of deaths!

Someone actually recently purchased a 10 pack of Aquatic Arts Assorted Male Neocaridina Pack. She only has 1 shrimp left.

Multiple people have purchased shrimp infected with ellobiopsidae. If you do a search for "green fungus shrimp", you'll see a lot of results! And quite a few of them may even mention Aquatic Arts! They aren't the only ones that sell imported shrimp, but the majority of the people who purchase shrimp with this parasite (not a green fungus!) get their shrimp from Aquatic Arts... Unless you have the right treatment, just assume your shrimp are dead. Most of the recommended treatments to kill the parasite are likely to kill the shrimp in the process as well. If a shrimp is infected too much, treatment wont help. It'll eventually die. I've come across a couple of people who have purchased what they thought were healthy shrimp and 3-6 months later, this parasite showed up in their tanks!

https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/...how-to-cure-it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zrm1COijXM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfFyDb5o4iA


Many imported shrimp are bred in outdoor "ponds", where it may be harder to tell the health of the shrimp. This means that there could be a higher chance for parasites and diseases in general. I don't know if the below shrimp are imports or home bred, but this next video shows a more common parasite seen in Neos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3BHHZHS1ak



Aquatic Arts is not a bad store, as far as I can tell, they have great customer service! I just do not recommend buying imported shrimp from them! Or any reseller of imported shrimp! Joe's Aquarium is another reseller of imported shrimp. I've spoken with a customer who purchased shrimp from Joe's Aquarium, although he purchased 40 shrimp. And he was having a hard time keeping them alive!


Water parameters the shrimp came from (Taiwan?)
pH 7.1~7.5
TDS 200~250
GH 5-8
KH 1~2
Temp. 24~28C"


What the reseller keeps their shrimp in
pH 6.5~6.8
TDS 120-140
GH 3-5
KH 0~1
Temp. 24~26C"


vs His parameters
pH up to 8?
TDS n/a
GH 10
KH ~6
Temp. n/a


Of the 40 shrimp that were purchased, at least 16 were confirmed dead from that shipment based on the last information given. (not just DOA, but also over time in the tank) That's a huge loss! It's not uncommon to purchase 10 shrimp and receive 11 or 12 instead. The extra shrimp are for any potential DOA's... aka "insurance purposes". Unless it gets too hot or too cold, most shrimp typically arrive alive. As long as the water parameters are good, deaths should be few. That is, if you order 10 shrimp and you receive 12, you should expect at least 8-10 to survive acclimation to your tank.



My apologies for such a long winded post! Just trying to stress all the potential issues with imported Neos. (regardless of who you buy them from!) Buying USA bred shrimp does have it's own pitfalls as well, however, if you purchase from a reputable breeder or a great hobbyist, then you can avoid many of these issues!



Since you've never had shrimp before, and if you want the best success at keeping shrimp for the first time, then don't buy imported shrimp! That's all I'm trying to say!


HanAquatics has some nice blue neos for cheaper...
Cobalt Blue - Han Aquatics

Or DLuxe Shrimp
Blue Dream Shrimp
Blue Velvet Shrimp

Lucas Bretz keeps his in higher parameters (not entirely sure what those are, though! although does say currently out of stock)
Buy Freshwater Aquarium shrimp for sale Blue Dream Neocaridina | L.R.Bretz Aquatics
Buy Freshwater Aquarium shrimp for sale BlueVelvet Neocaridina | L.R.Bretz Aquatics



If still available, these may be a great buy!
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/15...eocardina.html

Maybe these instead?
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/15...mp-plants.html


Just make sure they are home bred and not imported. Find out what the water parameters are, and if possible get as close to them as possible. Otherwise, just make sure your parameters are within range for them and drip acclimate!
This is the kind of shrimp purchasing info that I wish I'd known before I ordered my first ones. There's so much you don't even know that you need to know. I spent so much time researching how to keep them healthy & happy in their tank, it didn't even occur to me that I needed to research where they were coming from.

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
TDS - Total Dissolved Solids

Doesn't tell you *WHAT* is in the water, only how "clean" or "dirty" it is... aka it reads the electrical conductivity (EC) of the water. RO/DI and rain water should be low TDS, GH and KH. Possibly even 0.

Fresh water and safe drinking water is supposed to have under 1,000 TDS. It's recommended to keep *most* dwarf shrimp at 130-200 TDS, although certain species can handle lower or higher TDS ranges. I've tested water that some cherry shrimp are thriving in and the TDS was over 600! Most people keep them under 300 TDS.


GH - General Hardness
KH - Carbonate Hardness

Basically, mineral content. GH is more important than KH, although KH "controls" pH and helps to stabilize it. (as long as there is nothing to counter it)

If the water is too soft (1-4/5 GH) then the shrimp may not be able to molt properly because their shells are too soft to molt out of. On the flip side, if the water is too hard (15-20+ GH), then their shells may be too hard for them to molt out of.



Aquatic Arts sells imported shrimp. Imported shrimp are kept at Caridina parameters (general idea... 5/6 GH, 0-2 KH, 180-250 TDS, 6.4-6.8 pH). Lets say the breeder of these shrimp live in Taiwan. (there are a lot of breeders there!) First off, your shrimp will be stressed out from being shipped from Taiwan to the USA. They will again be stressed once they reach the resellers location, as they will probably go into holding tanks with different water parameters. The shrimp will be stressed out, once again, when they are then shipped to your home and then acclimated to your tanks. If your parameters are not close to what the shrimp came from, you may have a lot of deaths!

Someone actually recently purchased a 10 pack of Aquatic Arts Assorted Male Neocaridina Pack. She only has 1 shrimp left.

Multiple people have purchased shrimp infected with ellobiopsidae. If you do a search for "green fungus shrimp", you'll see a lot of results! And quite a few of them may even mention Aquatic Arts! They aren't the only ones that sell imported shrimp, but the majority of the people who purchase shrimp with this parasite (not a green fungus!) get their shrimp from Aquatic Arts... Unless you have the right treatment, just assume your shrimp are dead. Most of the recommended treatments to kill the parasite are likely to kill the shrimp in the process as well. If a shrimp is infected too much, treatment wont help. It'll eventually die. I've come across a couple of people who have purchased what they thought were healthy shrimp and 3-6 months later, this parasite showed up in their tanks!

https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/...how-to-cure-it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zrm1COijXM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfFyDb5o4iA


Many imported shrimp are bred in outdoor "ponds", where it may be harder to tell the health of the shrimp. This means that there could be a higher chance for parasites and diseases in general. I don't know if the below shrimp are imports or home bred, but this next video shows a more common parasite seen in Neos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3BHHZHS1ak



Aquatic Arts is not a bad store, as far as I can tell, they have great customer service! I just do not recommend buying imported shrimp from them! Or any reseller of imported shrimp! Joe's Aquarium is another reseller of imported shrimp. I've spoken with a customer who purchased shrimp from Joe's Aquarium, although he purchased 40 shrimp. And he was having a hard time keeping them alive!


Water parameters the shrimp came from (Taiwan?)
pH 7.1~7.5
TDS 200~250
GH 5-8
KH 1~2
Temp. 24~28C"


What the reseller keeps their shrimp in
pH 6.5~6.8
TDS 120-140
GH 3-5
KH 0~1
Temp. 24~26C"


vs His parameters
pH up to 8?
TDS n/a
GH 10
KH ~6
Temp. n/a


Of the 40 shrimp that were purchased, at least 16 were confirmed dead from that shipment based on the last information given. (not just DOA, but also over time in the tank) That's a huge loss! It's not uncommon to purchase 10 shrimp and receive 11 or 12 instead. The extra shrimp are for any potential DOA's... aka "insurance purposes". Unless it gets too hot or too cold, most shrimp typically arrive alive. As long as the water parameters are good, deaths should be few. That is, if you order 10 shrimp and you receive 12, you should expect at least 8-10 to survive acclimation to your tank.



My apologies for such a long winded post! Just trying to stress all the potential issues with imported Neos. (regardless of who you buy them from!) Buying USA bred shrimp does have it's own pitfalls as well, however, if you purchase from a reputable breeder or a great hobbyist, then you can avoid many of these issues!



Since you've never had shrimp before, and if you want the best success at keeping shrimp for the first time, then don't buy imported shrimp! That's all I'm trying to say!


HanAquatics has some nice blue neos for cheaper...
Cobalt Blue - Han Aquatics

Or DLuxe Shrimp
Blue Dream Shrimp
Blue Velvet Shrimp

Lucas Bretz keeps his in higher parameters (not entirely sure what those are, though! although does say currently out of stock)
Buy Freshwater Aquarium shrimp for sale Blue Dream Neocaridina | L.R.Bretz Aquatics
Buy Freshwater Aquarium shrimp for sale BlueVelvet Neocaridina | L.R.Bretz Aquatics



If still available, these may be a great buy!
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/15...eocardina.html

Maybe these instead?
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/15...mp-plants.html


Just make sure they are home bred and not imported. Find out what the water parameters are, and if possible get as close to them as possible. Otherwise, just make sure your parameters are within range for them and drip acclimate!
Thank you for being "long winded". ALL of your info was very helpful.

I still love the blue shrimp but now realize that I need to work my way up to keeping something that needs such special care. If I would have gotten them and they all died, I would have very likely given up and packed the whole aquarium back up again.

I will find a "local breeder" and get red cherry shrimp to start. That was my first plan until I started researching and discovered that neocaridina species came in so many colors. Before posting here, I read on several websites and aquatic store descriptions that the care was the same. So I assumed that they were all equally hardy.

When people said "imported", i thought they were talking about those 100$ shrimp or at a minimum at least the caridina species.

The TDS meter won't tell me what's in my water, but it will tell me how much of "whatever" is in my water. I can use it to test my starting water, test my tank water and depending on the results, adjust my water to get it in the acceptable range. I can also use it in any incoming shrimp arrivals to help me (along with other tank parameters) decide how long to acclimate the shrimp before adding them to my tank. AND I can use it in my normal maintenance as a guide to when I should make water changes. Is this correct?

I have read KH and GH results many times before in reef tanks, but have never added anything to a reef tank that didn't come from the ocean. These numbers were always spot on so I never really gave them much thought. Dont get me wrong, there are plenting of things to watch for in saltwater tanks also but these 2 were never that important in my experience. I just didn't realize that "what" I was placing in my freshwater tank could affect these numbers so drastically. Im actually having a "duh" moment now that the lightbulb over my head has turned on. And feeling quite silly for not realizing this in the first place.

I'm so glad I posted here and want to thank you and the others for the time you have taken to help me understand. I also appreciate that i didnt recieve any of the expected, "plenty of info already here... do a search why dont ya?". XD

EDIT: I responded to your post before checking all the great links you included. There are lots of pretty blue shrimp! Thank you so much again!
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lahornby View Post
They didn't need anything from me except java moss, a little food and an occasional water change.
Sounds like keeping shrimp lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by lahornby View Post
I wish my local stores carried neos... So I could just try to keep 1 alive instead of killing off $70 worth of shrimp (not to mention 10 lives) all at once if I have something wrong.
Petco is everywhere and carry red cherry shrimp and can order a variety of shrimp on request. I recently saw some I think Yellow King Kongs at Petco, mislabled the day they arrived tho lol, and they almost always have red cherry shrimp, amano shrimp, and ghost shrimp. I've seen them carry Snow White Bee shrimp on occasion as well.

LiveAquaria is affiliated with Petco, and I've found the variety on the site listing matches exactly what can be ordered(not that you can always get what's on the order sheet). Don't buy from their website, their packing/shipping/pricing is terrible. Go to a store and ask them to get some in and pay the in-store price which almost always beats online+shipping especially in the lower quantities.

Try keeping a ghost shrimp alive, they're real cheap like feeder fish cheap.

Try @TropicalAquarist for blue dreams. Planning to get some if I can ever clear out all these jars that I'm growing out shrimp in. Need to clear the jars away so I can set up a tank.

Don't ask for advice. Ask for information, gather lots of information from different reliable sources. Then use the information to make your own advice.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:08 PM
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Sounds like you're off to a good start, please do get the GH/DH test kits, and the TDS meter. Also a reputable remineralizer like Salty Shrimp GH-KH+. And keep using the RO water from your local store.

One thing I have to ask. You said you're cycling the tank with a couple dead shrimp? How big are these? Like cocktail shrimp?

It's a crapshoot to be cycling with an uncontrolled ammonia source like this, part of the problem being you may grow more nitrifying bacteria than are required for the actual nitrogen cycle load the new shrimp will present.

Starting small, keeping it simple..(?)
250 gallon stock tank, "pond"
20 gallon H CBS Shrimp tank

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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:41 PM
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You don't necessarily have to buy cherry shrimp if you want to start with blue shrimp, although some of the blues can indeed be more expensive than cheap reds. If you can find a local breeder, you may be able to find cheap cherry shrimp for $1-$2 a piece. A lot of people will also sell them for pretty cheap, sometimes with free shipping. (depending on how many you buy)


My SO started out with shrimp from an LFS. Then we got shrimp from a local hobby breeder. I've added in some shrimp from Petco. In the beginning, we struggled to keep shrimp alive! Our water was too soft (didn't know it) so adults were slowly dying and the babies never made it past a few days old, if that... except for 3, but even those 3 didn't make it to adult-hood. Once I figured out what the problem was and corrected it, we now have shrimp living for longer and babies growing into adults.

A lot of people buy 10 shrimp and in 3-6 months they have a huge, thriving population! Me? I've been keeping shrimp for over a year now and have yet to get that big population boom that keeps on growing! A lot of people who struggle keeping Neos have better luck keeping Tigers, so I recently purchased some YKK (Caridina hybrid, Tiger x Crystal? mix). They are all pretty young, and I may have a bunch of males, so we'll see how that goes... (no saddled females)


Some abbreviations...

RCS - Red Cherry Shrimp
CRS - Crystal Red Shrimp
CBS - Crystal Black Shrimp
PRL - Pure Red Line
TB - Taiwan Bee
Mischling - Crystal x TB
Tibee - Tiger x TB/Crystal
TaiTibee - Tibee x TB
BKK - Black King Kong
YKK - Yellow King Kong (TT x KK?)
TT - Tangerine Tiger
OEBT - Orange Eye Blue Tiger
OERBT - Orange Eye Royal Blue Tiger



Care between blue Neos and cherries (red Neos) is the same, just that imported Neos tend to be very fragile and potentially riddled with parasites. Color of Neo doesn't matter! Quick search on "ellobiopsidae shrimp", and pictures of orange, blue and red shrimp pop up.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ello...=1920&bih=1014

My SO had picked out a female shrimp with ellobiopsidae, not knowing at the time that she wasn't berried - she was infected. She came from a store that we had never been to before and we were not familiar with.... I ended up quarantining her and attempting treatment, but she still died. The store did say they would give me a free shrimp, but I never went back... not worth bringing home another import that could potentially be carrying this parasite. (this being before I knew much about imports myself!)




The common Neo colors, Crystals and Tigers are commonly imported. Neos especially because they are such fast breeders! They're basically like rabbits of the shrimp world! (thinking of references, I feel like I'm more familiar with lionfish than I am of oscars, never kept fish though! Besides a beta... unplanned. Brought home to me and I later found it a better home!) The more expensive shrimp aren't commonly imported because so much could go wrong in getting them to the states, and it would be a lot of money wasted, if they died. A few people though are trying to bring in some of the more expensive shrimp and get a breeding colony going here in the states! There's a current buy-in going on where people will split the shipping costs, I think? Or maybe just buy your own shrimp and as long as enough people buy in, shipping will be free? Not sure...


Anyway, here's a couple of videos of outdoor ponds of Neo shrimp - Setups like these are common for the popular shrimp!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldcgV8RSHEg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq0p5fvIT6U


Vs a couple of overseas companies that keeps Crystals and go all out for their shrimp breeding and keeping!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVjYLHlOQqM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H470Ld8n6vM



My apologies if I may have steered you away from keeping blue shrimp! That was not my intention! I'm just trying to steer you away from imported shrimp! MANY people keep blue shrimp in the USA and sell them! I haven't watched this video yet, but judging by the comments, it's great! (aka I should really watch it myself!) It may help you better understand on how to care for shrimp!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6eL...ature=youtu.be




@FishRFriendz the "Petco" website lists "Mandarin Shrimp"....

Tropical Freshwater Inverts for Freshwater Aquariums: Mandarin Shrimp, Neocaridina sp.


What is pictured is a Sunkist Shrimp, which is a Caridina species. Their description says Neocaridina.

They sometimes even sell shrimp labeled as "Orange Bee" shrimp... which should be Sunkist Shrimp or something else...

Generally speaking, all their shrimp are Neocaridinas... and they are just selling shrimp as something they are not. It's common though for Petco to mislabel their animals... especially when they order one thing and their supplier is out of stock of it, or there's an idiot working at the supplier, and what gets sent out is not the same as what was ordered... and it's not changed.


So if you saw some yellow shrimp there, they were not YKK, but most likely some sort of Yellow Neo... common names include Neon Yellow, Goldenback Yellow and 24K Yellow.
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:08 PM
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This may be your problem! I looked up the cat litter you used as substrate and it appears to have added chemicals to control odor:

Premium Clay Cat Litter
For pet owners that demands the best, there's Special Kitty Premium Clay Cat Litter. Its odor control system traps odors while releasing a pleasant fragrance that keeps your cat's litter box smelling fresh and clean.


I'm betting that is what is making your parameters wonky. I've never been huge on cat litter as a substrate simply due to not knowing what kind of crap they put in it other than clay. If you are looking for a super cheap substrate that works, look for Turface ProLeague. Its a fired clay substrate but it's totally inert and has a high CEC so it soaks up ferts and holds them well. I used it on my 55 gallon and had great plant growth when combining it with Osmocote.

Pro LeagueŽ Calcined Clay | Turface Athletics
Find a Distributor | Turface Athletics
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
So if you saw some yellow shrimp there, they were not YKK, but most likely some sort of Yellow Neo... common names include Neon Yellow, Goldenback Yellow and 24K Yellow.
I thought they were the yellow neos the first day they were there and completely mislabeled and misspriced(WTF $9.99!). The 2nd day however, the girl that regularly works there that I make custom orders with because she places the orders relabeled them as Bee shrimp for $3.99. I do still think they're neos, but she's labeled them Bee, so that could only be YKK if she's correct. And I've definitely seen snow white bees there before.
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:33 PM
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I think I prefer the KISS method with Neos....

Sand.

Doesn't matter if it's play sand, pool filter sand, media blasting sand... just, sand! And as cheap as $4-$8 for 50 lbs!!!
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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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Shopping List for tomorrow's trip to petsmart and/or petco:
More plants
TDS meter
Master, KH, GH freshwater tests. (I know they carry API brand, but is there a better brand I should look for?)

Below is a pic (If I did it right) of my 2 dead shrimp with a quarter for size comparison. These were actually ghost shrimp that recently died in horribly failed diy closed ecosystem that me n the kiddos read about on the internet. Is it to late to change my cycling process? My ammonia is still at 1.0ppm. 0ppm for no2 and no3.

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My petco store: It was very nice when it first arrived. Now, 10+ years? later, it's a run down dirty dusty place with 1 or sometimes 2 cars in the parking lot on a good day. Not much old livestock goes out, so I'm assuming that's why not much new livestock comes in. I have never seen any shrimp other than ghost shrimp there. Even their plant selection is sickly looking from growing under those weak stock lights for so long. BUT, now that you mention it, they used to order me whatever I wanted (within their capabilities) years ago when i did saltwater. That might be something I will have to see if it's still available.

Ghost Shrimp: I was thinking I should try 1, but i also read they can be mean to to neo's. Will I be able to catch him if he is, assuming there will be more plants in the aquarium? I'm going to be adding some taller plants to back for sure.

And a side note: I have found a seller here from the earlier links for the dream blue velvet shrimp that is breeding them in his own tank. After talking to him, I feel quite confident about buying from him. (I'm starting to feel excited about them again!) Extra bonus, significantly cheaper from him including free shipping. XD
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfish View Post
This may be your problem! I looked up the cat litter you used as substrate and it appears to have added chemicals to control odor:

Premium Clay Cat Litter
For pet owners that demands the best, there's Special Kitty Premium Clay Cat Litter. Its odor control system traps odors while releasing a pleasant fragrance that keeps your cat's litter box smelling fresh and clean.


I'm betting that is what is making your parameters wonky. I've never been huge on cat litter as a substrate simply due to not knowing what kind of crap they put in it other than clay. If you are looking for a super cheap substrate that works, look for Turface ProLeague. Its a fired clay substrate but it's totally inert and has a high CEC so it soaks up ferts and holds them well. I used it on my 55 gallon and had great plant growth when combining it with Osmocote.

Pro LeagueŽ Calcined Clay | Turface Athletics
Find a Distributor | Turface Athletics
You could be right, although I did buy the unscented kind and the exact brand that people recommend if you want to go the clay route. It's supposed to be pure clay without additives. It's something I had laying around the house from my 1st planted aquarium attempt So I used it. I plan to test it today in a bucket of water. Testing the water before and after I add the kitty litter. Money is not a huge issue since the tank is so small. I don't want to drag it out of the aquarium if I don't have to at this point. But I will if I need to.

BUT, I was planning on getting the rest of my plants this weekend and draining most of the water to have better control while planting them. So... this would be as good of time as any to change it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
I think I prefer the KISS method with Neos....

Sand.

Doesn't matter if it's play sand, pool filter sand, media blasting sand... just, sand! And as cheap as $4-$8 for 50 lbs!!!
I like the look of sand as well. But do plants grow well in it?

Last edited by lahornby; 04-20-2017 at 06:49 PM. Reason: To much quote
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishRFriendz View Post
I thought they were the yellow neos the first day they were there and completely mislabeled and misspriced(WTF $9.99!). The 2nd day however, the girl that regularly works there that I make custom orders with because she places the orders relabeled them as Bee shrimp for $3.99. I do still think they're neos, but she's labeled them Bee, so that could only be YKK if she's correct. And I've definitely seen snow white bees there before.

YKK's don't look like that though. YKK are *clear* or translucent shrimp. Those appear kind of opaque... which again leads me to believe they are Neos. Here are a few that I just recently purchased... although the white heads are *NOT* common... and the breeder isn't sure about that since he didn't see the white heads when he gathered them up...


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@lahornby - The TDS meter, GH and KH test kits must be purchased online unfortunately, unless there's an LFS that carries them. Generally, they might carry the GH and KH test kit, but not the TDS meter. All can be purchased for under $20 or $30 on Amazon (depending on what you get), although the Sera and Nutrafin kits (easier to read, I hear) are more expensive.

If you want to be sure the TDS meter is accurate, there's also a TDS Calibration Solution that can also be purchased.


The API master test kit *should* be at Petco!


Certainly not too late to try changing your cycling process! If there's an Ace Hardware near you, they do sell Janitorial Strength Ammonia, and then you just use a calculator to dose up to x-amount of ammonia to reach a certain ppm into the aquarium.


Glad you found someone who could supply you with some blue shrimp!


And I imagine the clay could certainly be changing the parameters!



As far as sand and plants go? Yes, as long as you stick with "low light" plants... aka plants that don't require a lot of high tech care. If you do it right, it's possible to have nice plants and shrimp. Just have to be careful with CO2 (shrimp more sensitive to it than fish) and ferts, if you use them. There are some root tabs that can also be added to the sand, but again, just be careful with shrimp.

Many people do low tech setups with minimal plants or just moss. Some take it up a notch and have amazing looking tanks with shrimp!


Basically... do you want a planted tank? Or a shrimp tank? If you want plants, shrimp and fish, it's a balancing act! Most all fish will eat shrimp, and even if they don't eat adults, they might eat babies! (not that you mentioned fish, just using it as an example)

People who have great planted tanks with shrimp often dose 1/4 to 1/2 of what is recommended, and instead of dosing daily, may cut back to every other day or less.

There are also fertilizers out there geared towards shrimp tanks!
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
Basically... do you want a planted tank? Or a shrimp tank? If you want plants, shrimp and fish, it's a balancing act! Most all fish will eat shrimp, and even if they don't eat adults, they might eat babies! (not that you mentioned fish, just using it as an example)
Oh... It's definitely a shrimp tank. No fish. Im only adding the plants FOR the shrimp.

Thanks again, everyone
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
YKK's don't look like that though. YKK are *clear* or translucent shrimp. Those appear kind of opaque... which again leads me to believe they are Neos. Here are a few that I just recently purchased... although the white heads are *NOT* common... and the breeder isn't sure about that since he didn't see the white heads when he gathered them up...
Yeah that's why I was thinking neos too. That white spot is nice if it's not some illness. Really nice if they keep the white bit on the head. Gives em a bit more detail to take in.
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