Flourish Excel killed all my shrimp - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Flourish Excel killed all my shrimp

I got a batch of Crystal Black Shrimp for my heavily planted nano tank after it had been cycled and the water parameters were perfect. The shrimp did great for over a week as I was slowly introducing fertelizers. Seachem Iron, Potassium and Flourish didn't seem to bother them at all. This morning I decided to dose Flourish Excel and within 3 minutes, all my shrimp started swimiming aimlessly and just sank. I'm convinced that Flourish Excel poisoned them. Any thoughts?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 11:47 PM
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missed wordI use it in my shrimp tanks everyday at 1 and 1/2 times the recommended dose and have never had a problem.With that being said i did start with a small dose and worked up from there How much did you dose and what size tank.
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Last edited by mooncon; 03-14-2016 at 11:48 PM. Reason: missed word
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 12:13 AM
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People do use Excel with shrimp, but since the dosing and dieoff in your case were so close together one probably did cause the other.

I know the recommended "initial" Excel dose is generally considered to be too high.


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 01:12 AM
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Not sure about CBS I usually double dose Excel my tank and my cherries are still breeding like mad.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 03:26 PM
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I'm just going to put it out there. Don't bother using Ferts with shrimp. Shrimps rely on stable water parameters. Ferts can raise TDS which can harm more sensative shrimp such as CBS/CRS ect.

Whats worth more? Making your plants look better or the lives of your shrimps? It's best to keep shrimp tanks simple. For some people it works, and some people it won't.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 03:37 PM
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Did you dose excel in very close proximity to the shrimp?
Any chance you overdosed?

Did the shrimp die? If so, take a look at their undercarriage and see if their body tissue turned milky white (necrosis).

I have heard of some people also reporting negative impacts from dosing excel in shrimp tanks, not all or most, but some.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 04:19 PM
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I had some die-off in my 55 RC shrimp tank after dosing excel also- I have stopped all fert dosing on my shrimp tanks...

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 04:54 PM
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I wish people would REALLY understand what Excel is. It is SeaChem's name for a diluted disinfectant glutaraldehyde. Outside the aquarium trade, i.e. for medical use the common brand name is Metricide.

Section 12. Ecological Information
This product is classified as toxic to the aquatic environment.
Toxicity: No toxicity data available for product.
Glutaraldehyde: LC50 fathead minnow 10.8 mg/L/96 hr; EC50 daphnia magna 0.69 mg/L/48 hr; EbC50
green algae 2.64 mg/L/72 hr.
Persistence and degradability: Glutaraldehyde is readily biodegradable.
Bioaccumulative Potential: Glutaraldehyde: log Kow -0.333, potential for bioaccumulation is low
Mobility in Soil: Glutaraldehyde: highly mobile in soil.
Other Adverse Effects: None known

It is a poor substitute for gaseous CO2, and is known to cause problems with certain plants especially Vals. Some people can get away with it with shrimp some do not.
The only reason I use Excel is to control algae. Other than that, I would not put it in my tank, especially with shrimp.

OK, off my soap box! Rant over!

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooncon View Post
missed wordI use it in my shrimp tanks everyday at 1 and 1/2 times the recommended dose and have never had a problem.With that being said i did start with a small dose and worked up from there How much did you dose and what size tank.
Are your shrimp breeding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roostertech View Post
Not sure about CBS I usually double dose Excel my tank and my cherries are still breeding like mad.
To mooncon and roostertech:
Do you dose ferts into water column or use substrate/root tabs as main vehicle for delivering plant nutrients?

I daily dose the recommended 0.5ml into my new 6 gal RCS and OEBT tank which is currently heavily planted low-tech. As others have mentioned, Excel is a hit or miss, but since I am trying to balance both planted and shrimp breeding, I recognize I will have to explore various options including no liquid ferts/excel, CO2 injection, root tabs, etc.

I'm curious who has had success dosing excel and macro/micro and are able to breed their shrimp (and if so, please share your regimen!).
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 11:16 PM
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My shrimp breed like crazy,i have a 75 gallon with cherry shrimp I dose 15 cc glut everyday but sunday.I dose it with a little less than 1/4 teaspoon csm+b on mon-wed and fri then I dose 1/2 teaspoon potassium maybe 1/8 of phosphate and 1/8 nitrate on tues-thur and sat.My 10 gallon is red rili shrimp I dose 1.5 cc everyday but sun,and I just put a few grains of dry ferts on same days as the 75 gallon.Both of them are very stable on the perimeters,when I change water which is every week in the 10 gallon I just change 1 gallon and add the gallon that evaporated for the week for a total of 2 gallons a week and I use ro with remineralizer on it.the 75 gallon I change maybe 10 to 15 gallons every 2 to 3 weeks and it is tap water treated with safe.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 11:23 PM
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I often wonder if this is what killed my dwarf crays. I had one that lasted a pretty long time, but he was the largest. I think he killed a few, but some died for no apparent reason, including several berried females. I never could detect anything out of sorts in terms of params, unless there's something in our water. Water is a little on the hard side, which should be good for crustaceans.

I also had a TON of pond snails that rapidly had a mass die-off. I've yet to figure that one out, though now I'm noticing a few pond snails and quite a few ramshorn. I haven't added any new plants, so I think the small few I had in my tank simply have favorable conditions to reproduce. But I've not changed anything, other than cutting back on the Excel over the past month.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 12:59 AM
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I dose 1/4 EI with low level (barely turning green drop checker) of CO2 injection. 3-4ml Excel per day on 22g long.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 05:43 PM
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Yesturday after work I decided to dose 5ml of excel normally 1-2ml and about 10mins later started to see my crystal black shrimp going crazy, one died and got eaten by my badis and snails and another I saw swimming upside down and finally just laid upside down on the substrate but legs still moving. I quickly pulled 6 gallon from my 17 gallon tank and refilled it with ro/tap mix I set aside for weekend water changes and after about 10 mins of filling up the tank the upside down shrimp was alive again swimming normal. I guess with pressurized co2 adding 5ml of excel was too much.

If it aint broke dont fix it.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payluder View Post
Yesturday after work I decided to dose 5ml of excel normally 1-2ml and about 10mins later started to see my crystal black shrimp going crazy, one died and got eaten by my badis and snails and another I saw swimming upside down and finally just laid upside down on the substrate but legs still moving. I quickly pulled 6 gallon from my 17 gallon tank and refilled it with ro/tap mix I set aside for weekend water changes and after about 10 mins of filling up the tank the upside down shrimp was alive again swimming normal. I guess with pressurized co2 adding 5ml of excel was too much.
What made you decide to dose the 5ml instead of the usual 1-2?
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 06:16 PM
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To be honest I have no idea. I thought it was going to be fine because I see people say they double dose and was fine. I have a little algae outbreak after upgrading my lights so I was just hoping to add a little more to stop the growth.
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If it aint broke dont fix it.
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