Advice for a new 90 gal tank - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Advice for a new 90 gal tank

Currently in the middle of a planted fishless nitrogen cycle in the 90 gal tank.

The current setup is

2x 2215
1x 2217
Fluval Fresh and Plant LED 2.0 48"-60"
glass covers (intend to keep possible jumpers)

Plants
10x corkscrew vallisneria
10x sagittaria
5x dwarf sagittaria
4x swords
5x cryptocoryne wendtii
3x java ferns
1x cryptocoryne crispatula
1x red tiger lotus
some frogbit

Currently dosing with Ace Hardware ammonia, Excel and Flourish.

The ammonia cycle is completed, however, have not seen any decrease in nitrites or increase in nitrates. Awaiting arrival of CO2 equipment and planning to switch to EI or similar regime.

Experiencing melting in some plants. However, worst in the crypts, sagittaria and vallisneria. However, do not seem to have any melting occurring in the new growth except for the swords. I suspect the sagittaria will be fine since I see several new plants nearby, hoping it doesn't overrun the tank.

Hoping to introduce cherry shrimp after the nitrogen cycle to allow for the establishment of a colony.

Debating on the introduction of MTS and Assassins in the immediate future.

Plant to introduce fish a year or year and a half from now after I starve out the fish parasites. I prefer not to have to medicate in the tank once the fish are finally introduced.

Few questions I have,

Is the melting, particularly in the new growth in the swords, a sign of some deficiency? If so which one(s)?

Should the melted leaves be trimmed and removed?

Should I keep up some ammonia dosing after the introduction of live stock? I'm worried that the biofilter will die back with stocking just a few cherry shrimp.

Are there fish parasites that can't be starved out that I should be wary for? I believe velvet disease was possible issue due to its ability to photosynthesize.

Any recommendations on my current stocking plans?

Would a UV be advisable as a backup plan?

Thanks all.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sennithgrey View Post
Currently in the middle of a planted fishless nitrogen cycle in the 90 gal tank.

The current setup is

2x 2215
1x 2217
Fluval Fresh and Plant LED 2.0 48"-60"
glass covers (intend to keep possible jumpers)

Plants
10x corkscrew vallisneria
10x sagittaria
5x dwarf sagittaria
4x swords
5x cryptocoryne wendtii
3x java ferns
1x cryptocoryne crispatula
1x red tiger lotus
some frogbit

Currently dosing with Ace Hardware ammonia, Excel and Flourish.

The ammonia cycle is completed, however, have not seen any decrease in nitrites or increase in nitrates. Awaiting arrival of CO2 equipment and planning to switch to EI or similar regime.

Experiencing melting in some plants. However, worst in the crypts, sagittaria and vallisneria. However, do not seem to have any melting occurring in the new growth except for the swords. I suspect the sagittaria will be fine since I see several new plants nearby, hoping it doesn't overrun the tank.

Hoping to introduce cherry shrimp after the nitrogen cycle to allow for the establishment of a colony.

Debating on the introduction of MTS and Assassins in the immediate future.

Plant to introduce fish a year or year and a half from now after I starve out the fish parasites. I prefer not to have to medicate in the tank once the fish are finally introduced.

Few questions I have,

Is the melting, particularly in the new growth in the swords, a sign of some deficiency? If so which one(s)?

Should the melted leaves be trimmed and removed?

Should I keep up some ammonia dosing after the introduction of live stock? I'm worried that the biofilter will die back with stocking just a few cherry shrimp.

Are there fish parasites that can't be starved out that I should be wary for? I believe velvet disease was possible issue due to its ability to photosynthesize.

Any recommendations on my current stocking plans?

Would a UV be advisable as a backup plan?

Thanks all.
Pants tend to go though a melt when moved into a new tank, especially crypts. I have heard it said that vals don't like excel, so that could be a contributing factor for them. I'm not sure about the swords, it could be a deficiency. Cherry shrimp are awesome. Normally people add assassin snails to kill off other snails, so if you want MTS dont add assassins. Melted leaves are best removed. I would stop adding ammonia once you have shrimp. I cant give any advice on parasites, not experienced in that area. Keeping shrimp limits you fish options. I would say two or three large schools of small fish, like tetras or rasboras, and then a few centerpiece fish like pearl gourami or somthing else.
Hope this helps!


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Last edited by fishyfishy101; 11-14-2015 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Stuff
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 04:12 PM
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Give or take a couple of days it usually takes a week for the nitrites to show and the ammonia to start decreasing sharply. But then the bacteria which live off of the nitrites
takes about two weeks to start producing nitrates and the nitrites to start going down.
But then since Tetra Safe Start has a supply of both of those bacteria the cycle is
in progress just hrs after you put it in a tank. I have used this product and it worked
and I tested a reduction in Ammonia 45 min after I put it in there. If used according to the directions it will likely take a couple of hrs to first see that reduction.
When the test results are 0 Ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates the cycle is complete.
As long as there are some shrimp or fish in there the bacteria will live. Just in smaller amounts. They multiply rapidly when you add more. Just add small fish in small groups
each week till you have what you want. If you plan on Neon's add them last after the tank/filter is well established.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 08:01 PM
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I might throw in a bit of comfort on adding more fish later if that is something you see working better for you. As mentioned the bacteria will be set back to a level that fits the ammonia provided but it does increase much, much quicker when the ammonia does come up later. Once the bacteria is there, the second round is super fast compared to the first growth.
But then there is also a bit of comfort in what may happen if you miscalculate and do get too many fish and you do see ammonia. It will be good to test any time you add a significant amount of fish so when/if you do spot ammonia it can be dealt with and not harm fish. Bacteria can consume the ammonia or you can also do water changes to get it down.
Test and be ready and have water changes in mind and available IF needed and things are often less bother that way. A small slipup can be easy to cover with water changes. Just being aware and ready is one way to ease things.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-15-2015, 02:37 AM
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Once you have good plant growth and you have completed the cycle stop ammonia dosing and your tank is ready for introduction of fauna. Healthy plants and even minute survivours of the nitrogen cycle bacteria will take care of the ammonia produced by newly introduced fauna as long as you add them in small numbers at a time.

You will never be able to wait out all fish parasites from your tank nor is it necessary unless you are using a tank or hardware from a tank where parasites were present. Parasites tend to get introduced into the tank all the time through several sources, most commonly through the fauna we add.

If you have a choice, you have a problem, till you elect your choice. No choice, no problem, only consequences, learn to live with them.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Is the melting, particularly in the new growth in the swords, a sign of some deficiency? If so which one(s)?
Melting is normal as plants adjust to new conditions.

Quote:
Should the melted leaves be trimmed and removed?
Yes!

Quote:
Should I keep up some ammonia dosing after the introduction of live stock? I'm worried that the biofilter will die back with stocking just a few cherry shrimp.
No! Ammonia is dangerous. Your bio filter will adapt to the stocking itself. If you introduce a couple fish at a time, your established bio filter (no matter how small) will grow to hold the larger stocking.

Quote:
Are there fish parasites that can't be starved out that I should be wary for? I believe velvet disease was possible issue due to its ability to photosynthesize.
I have no experience with fish disease.

Quote:
Any recommendations on my current stocking plans?
Plants look fine to me. MTS and assassins seems redundant.

Quote:
Would a UV be advisable as a backup plan?
It never hurts, but I've never really needed it myself.


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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 12:37 PM
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I've never heard of anybody waiting a year to starve out fish parasites. Is there reason to suspect they're in the tank? And, if so, why not treat for them now?

If your plants came from online sellers, and some forum sellers, they might have been emersed-grown, in which case they'll generally melt before they put out new growth (they switch from emersed form to aquatic form). You can trim or leave old leaves. If you leave them, they'll just become food for new plants.

If by the time you add fish, the tank is heavily planted, you'll have no worries about an ammonia spike, as plants will consume excess ammonia. Some members swear by a fishless cycle in which they plant heavily (heavily enough that it's difficult to see the bottom of the tank from directly overhead), fill the tank, and drop in fish immediately, with no losses. Not sure I'd feel comfortable trying that with shrimp, but some likely would.

If you're concerned, you could add a few pinches of fish food daily until you toss in the shrimp. The decaying fish food will take the place of adding ammonia. It's probably not necessary, but it would keep ammonia introduction leveled out.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-19-2015, 04:29 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks all.

At the moment, I'm not particular worried about the melting for most of the plants, as they mostly have stopped deteriorating and have grown some new leaves. The only plants I'm worried about are the sword plants, as two of the sword plants seem to have grown a few new leaves that eventually turn transparent and seem to die off. The other two sword plants seem to be doing okay though one seems stunted with little growth.

I finally got the CO2 regulator and have begun the process of slowly adjusting it in.

@Freemananana:

I think the idea with the MTS and Assassins was to put the MTS in first as clean up crew and gravel aerator, have them increase in numbers a bit before introducing the Assassins to serve as population control. Which brings me to the question, are there any things that cherry shrimps won't eat that MTS will?

@kevmo911:

At the moment, there is no reason to suspect fish parasites will be present. However, I'm worried that the invertebrates that are part of the stocking plan may be carriers or may introduce fish parasites into tank. I gather from various threads that it won't be particularly easy to treat a planted tank with invertebrates for fish parasites short of redoing the entire tank. Hence hoping to starving the parasites out.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-19-2015, 10:36 AM
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MTS really thrive, as far as being useful, when you have soil that needs to be aerated. To me, RCS are they best thing besides other, more aggressive (eating wise), shrimps.


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