Can I add these fish immediately if... - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Can I add these fish immediately if...

I use tetra safe start?

My tank already has fish and shrimp in it. I plan on adding 12 harlequin rasboras, and 5 corydoras(already have 1... and just found out they do best in schools).

I'm wondering if I can add all these in at the same time if I just pour some tetra safe start to increase the nitrifying bacteria population. If so, how much should I pour in?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 06:07 PM
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You might be able to; but the only way to know is unfortunately to try. Follow the instructions on the bottle for dosing. The problem is that there is no way to know if the bacteria in the bottle is still alive. That stuff is sensitive and temperature swings (ie during shipping) can kill it. The stuff also has a relatively short shelf life. The bottle should be marked...I forget if they list an expiration date or the date when bottled. But try and get the freshest bottle you can find if you're going to try.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 07:23 PM
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What you are doing is not out of reason but it does pay to be aware of what COULD happen so that you are prepped.
Depending on how long your tank has been running and how much bacteria is collected on everything, the addition may not bother anything. Better to make smaller increases at a time but if there is reason to add the new all at once, just be alert.
You may get an ammonia or nitrite spike until the bacteria catches up. So do you have test kits and ready to check things as you go along? Testing is funky at times and when first starting testing, things can get confused so be ready to do a good reliable test. Testing for problems will show things are off before it gets to a crisis where fish are fighting just to live. If there is a spike and you have a plan to deal with it, there is little harm done to the fish. But it has to be done sooner rather than after all the fish are sick and dying.
A massive increase in water changing will dilute the ammonia or nitrite. But the new water has to be correct to match what you have in the tank to avoid too much shock to the fish.
Just have the act together and go for it or look at adding smaller numbers over a longer period?
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 08:43 PM
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How big is your tank? How long have you had it set up? How many fish do you have now?

I'd add the Corys first, and add the Harlequins 5-7 days later. I used safe start when I added a decent amount more green tetras to my established tank and I still had a mini cycle.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 09:28 PM
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I haven't used the tetra product, but I've heard very mixed reviews. That said, I've heard great things and had a great experience using Fritz Zyme (the refrigerated version, not the on-the-shelf version, I'm told there's a big difference, think it's called Turbo Start). I got in a bind when the established tank I had planned to pull a filter off of to jump start my new tank came down sick after I'd already ordered fish for the new tank (multiple dumb moves there, I fully realize, but it was what it was). I used the Fritz Zyme product, and very fully stocked (read as overstocked - especially since a few fish intended for the sick tank ended up in the new one) the tank less than 48 hours later. Didn't have a single casualty, no stressed or sick fish, and never had ammonia or nitrite readings.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 09:46 PM
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I've always heard that those types of products don't work because the bacteria inside always dies fast (whether that be due to temp swings or lack of receiving oxygen or other food sources).

However as far as that stock, I have on multiple occasions added more than that amount of fish to a 20 gallon tank all at once and have never had any die (40 usually, with 60 at most of similar sized fish, although I contribute that a lot of it to how minimal stress I place on the fish during the initial acclimating process and how minimal I keep the stress over the following 3-7 days, multiple ways to minimize stress). And I used no products other than a bit extra Seachem Prime/Safe to detoxify some. The tanks had no live plants. And of course I always tried to add enough seeded biomedia from other tank filters (pretty much the same as you are asking, but my beneficial bacteria I know is alive and healthy)

So for your case, I know it's possible to add the whole lot of rasboras and corys into the tank. Although your tank size (amount of water dilution of toxins if things do go haywire) and if your filter has the capacity to deal with the amount of bioload being added. Especially with the fish in question, I bet you will have no trouble adding the fish, and you won't get a minicycle. None should die, unless overstressed.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 10:33 PM
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I would agree that adding the 5 corys first, then the Harlequins a week or two later would be your best bet. This is without the safe start stuff. I can't speak as to how it would be different with it.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 11:14 PM
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How heavily planted is this tank? If it's a jungle you could dump them all in without any real problems. If it's sparsely planted, take it slowly so that you're not making a fishy horror movie.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-14-2015, 12:56 AM
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I can say that tetra safe start has worked for me in the past but I'd be wary of old bottles as previously mentioned. The most important thing is to monitor it regularly with tests and visually and be ready to respond if you get a spike.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-14-2015, 03:27 AM
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i used tetra safe start yesterday and all my levels were great today. i would wait 24 hrs before adding fish..but tetra safe start works
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-14-2015, 03:43 AM
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Here is how I would do this:
1) Add Tetra Safe Start.
2) Add ammonia.
3a) If the ammonia disappears overnight, and little or no nitrite, then the TSS is good, and you can add all the fish.
3b) If the ammonia lingers longer than 24 hours, or nitrite does not go away, then you have just started the fishless cycle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alternate:
Add 50% dose of TSS.
Add no more than 25% of the fish, and less is better.
If there is no sign of ammonia or nitrite, then go ahead and add some more fish.
If there is ammonia or nitrite, then the TSS has started to die off, and you are now faced with a fish-in cycle. Add the rest of the TSS and do whatever you need to to keep the ammonia and nitrite under control.

If the TSS is good, then keep the TSS in the fridge and add some with each batch of fish you add.
This is also a good way to handle it when you cannot find all the fish you want, or if you are adding fish with different personality that should be added in stages.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-14-2015, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana View Post
Here is how I would do this:
1) Add Tetra Safe Start.
2) Add ammonia.
3a) If the ammonia disappears overnight, and little or no nitrite, then the TSS is good, and you can add all the fish.
3b) If the ammonia lingers longer than 24 hours, or nitrite does not go away, then you have just started the fishless cycle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alternate:
Add 50% dose of TSS.
Add no more than 25% of the fish, and less is better.
If there is no sign of ammonia or nitrite, then go ahead and add some more fish.
If there is ammonia or nitrite, then the TSS has started to die off, and you are now faced with a fish-in cycle. Add the rest of the TSS and do whatever you need to to keep the ammonia and nitrite under control.

If the TSS is good, then keep the TSS in the fridge and add some with each batch of fish you add.
This is also a good way to handle it when you cannot find all the fish you want, or if you are adding fish with different personality that should be added in stages.
Hi Diana,

Actually wanted to ask you, how much ammonia do we add? How do we know the dosage if we just get ammonia from the store? Is the goal to get 2ppm in the tank?
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonpatterson View Post
How heavily planted is this tank? If it's a jungle you could dump them all in without any real problems. If it's sparsely planted, take it slowly so that you're not making a fishy horror movie.
I agree with the heavily planted deal. And by heavily, I mean HEAVILY planted. The plants act to suck up ammonia/ammonium, which is the reason people cycle a tank in order for bacteria to break the ammonia/ammonium in the absence of HEAVY amounts of plants. So, you can wait the many weeks it takes to accumulate the bacteria that will take care of fish, or, you could spend loads of dollars on plants, that will suck it up immediately. Your choice. But if you choose plants, be ready to pay the price to completely and over abundantly cover your tank. See my tanks. I never worry about nitrifying bacteria because I have an over abundance of plants. Now, you do have to worry about keeping your tank clean. Once a week, changing water (about 35 to 50% depending on so many things I can't go into.) And, you have to feed those plants liquid fertilizer properly, not overdose, or you'll end up with a poison tank. (Over accumulated fertilizer, not used up because you don't have enough plants.) See my tanks.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-17-2015, 04:22 PM
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I had a marineland bacteria starter that worked good, one that did not, and a Seachem Stability that worked very well.

...Poke and hope.

40 breeder - 1.25" Dirt/1.25" Black Diamond cap - Pressurized CO2 (2.25bps) - 2x54watt T5HO and 42watt LED (total 150watts; 14,500 lumens) - EI dosing - 50% weekly WC - H.O.T. Magnum 250 canister - SunSun 530 gph pump - Set-up 7-14-2015 - Cycled 8-1-2015

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-17-2015, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana View Post
Here is how I would do this:
1) Add Tetra Safe Start.
2) Add ammonia.
3a) If the ammonia disappears overnight, and little or no nitrite, then the TSS is good, and you can add all the fish.
3b) If the ammonia lingers longer than 24 hours, or nitrite does not go away, then you have just started the fishless cycle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alternate:
Add 50% dose of TSS.
Add no more than 25% of the fish, and less is better.
If there is no sign of ammonia or nitrite, then go ahead and add some more fish.
If there is ammonia or nitrite, then the TSS has started to die off, and you are now faced with a fish-in cycle. Add the rest of the TSS and do whatever you need to to keep the ammonia and nitrite under control.

If the TSS is good, then keep the TSS in the fridge and add some with each batch of fish you add.
This is also a good way to handle it when you cannot find all the fish you want, or if you are adding fish with different personality that should be added in stages.
Are you suggesting adding ammonia to a tank with fish already in it? The OP stated there were fish and shrimp in the tank in question.
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