Should I use MTS? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-18-2015, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Should I use MTS?

Should I keep MTS in the tank to keep the eco complete clean and prevent anaerobic patches developing? Do MTS create a lot of bioload?
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-18-2015, 12:39 PM
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They do not create much bioload, but they will reproduce exponentially in the tank and can be very hard to eliminate. They do a great job at aerating the substrate though.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-18-2015, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by benealing View Post
They do not create much bioload, but they will reproduce exponentially in the tank and can be very hard to eliminate. They do a great job at aerating the substrate though.
Can assassin snails also become a problem?(in terms of multiplying in numbers). I was thinking of getting some MTS to aerate the ecocomplete for now since I see lots of bubbles come up when I move the substrate around(it's about 3 inches deep). Then later on when there are no more bubbles I was thinking of adding a few assassin snails to keep the MTS population down.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-18-2015, 02:52 PM
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Generally speaking, reproduction goes with food availability for snails that can multiply in tanks. Food being fish food that reach the bottom, dead plants, algea...


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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-18-2015, 03:17 PM
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I use 2 assassin snails in my 20g to keep pond snails and ramshorn under control. The assassins do not breed as rapidly as other snails. If you decide on assassins, don't get a huge number. A few will keep things under control. If you run out of snails for the assassins to eat, they will eat any protein based fish food.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-19-2015, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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My eco-complete depth is about 3 inches. Would you guys say this is too deep?(deep enough to worry about anaerobic pockets)
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-19-2015, 05:03 PM
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Having had dirted tanks, playsand substrates, and MTS, Something about anaerobic pockets in your substrate isn't has harmful as you might think provided you have a planted tank. i Learned that my MTS will help keep the play sand stirred but wont help with the anaerobic pockets, they will regardless get released into the water column and out into the air. nothing to be concerned with a fully mature planted tank. but also to help keep the anaerobic gasses down put your substrate in after you fill the tank 1/4 way full that way any air will be released to the surface and reduce the conditions of the air pockets being converted to anaerobic state. by the time it takes for the anaerobic conditions to establish in your tank, your tank should be fully established. if you look at the underside of my tank that just has playsand you will see black spots of stale gas , and air. i don't worry about it because anything your biological filter removes will also clean anything that the substrate releases. I have never heard of anyone who has lost a tank because there substrate was to anaerobic in a planted tank. the plant roots will also help tank that out. they will feed off some of the bad air and gasses trapped in your substrate along with all the waste from the tank that gets absorbed into the substrate. MTS are great to have i put them in every tank. they are the only snail i consider working snails. they do populate fast, But they do help a planted tank out, they help root feeder plants get the waste from the fish from the top of the substrate to the bottom. they do work wonders. but your really need a good population to help keep the substrate from packing, but but 1 assassin snail will help keep them in check in a 55g tank or smaller. the reason i used playsand as a reference is it packs tight and it is worse than eco-complete, Don't be worried as much, of your substrate, tho the depth of your substrate is kinda high i would cut back to 2 inches, you really don't need more than that, my dirted tank is only 3 1/2 inches with cap. but even still at 3 inches you would be fine. but just make sure you get some heavy rooted feeding plants like amazon swords.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-19-2015, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Having had dirted tanks, playsand substrates, and MTS, Something about anaerobic pockets in your substrate isn't has harmful as you might think provided you have a planted tank. i Learned that my MTS will help keep the play sand stirred but wont help with the anaerobic pockets, they will regardless get released into the water column and out into the air. nothing to be concerned with a fully mature planted tank. but also to help keep the anaerobic gasses down put your substrate in after you fill the tank 1/4 way full that way any air will be released to the surface and reduce the conditions of the air pockets being converted to anaerobic state. by the time it takes for the anaerobic conditions to establish in your tank, your tank should be fully established. if you look at the underside of my tank that just has playsand you will see black spots of stale gas , and air. i don't worry about it because anything your biological filter removes will also clean anything that the substrate releases. I have never heard of anyone who has lost a tank because there substrate was to anaerobic in a planted tank. the plant roots will also help tank that out. they will feed off some of the bad air and gasses trapped in your substrate along with all the waste from the tank that gets absorbed into the substrate. MTS are great to have i put them in every tank. they are the only snail i consider working snails. they do populate fast, But they do help a planted tank out, they help root feeder plants get the waste from the fish from the top of the substrate to the bottom. they do work wonders. but your really need a good population to help keep the substrate from packing, but but 1 assassin snail will help keep them in check in a 55g tank or smaller. the reason i used playsand as a reference is it packs tight and it is worse than eco-complete, Don't be worried as much, of your substrate, tho the depth of your substrate is kinda high i would cut back to 2 inches, you really don't need more than that, my dirted tank is only 3 1/2 inches with cap. but even still at 3 inches you would be fine. but just make sure you get some heavy rooted feeding plants like amazon swords.
Thanks for clearing that up. Though I was originally planning to have just java moss and a few marimo moss balls in there.. maybe I should plant a sword as you suggested just to get some roots going.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-19-2015, 05:59 PM
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yea with just java moss and marimo moss they only absorb nutrients from the water column i would plant a few swords or even crypts would help in that regard and i would lower your depth of substrate beings your not going with a lot of rooted plants.i would even just do a 1" substrate or 1 1/2" if your don't want any plants other than moss. but also because your not doing a heavy planted tank i would vacum the substrate every water change to help keep the waste from building up in your substrate. but your welcome thats what we are all here for.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-19-2015, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FuelingFire View Post
yea with just java moss and marimo moss they only absorb nutrients from the water column i would plant a few swords or even crypts would help in that regard and i would lower your depth of substrate beings your not going with a lot of rooted plants.i would even just do a 1" substrate or 1 1/2" if your don't want any plants other than moss. but also because your not doing a heavy planted tank i would vacum the substrate every water change to help keep the waste from building up in your substrate. but your welcome thats what we are all here for.

Wouldn't gravel vacc'ing ruin the java carpet? I was planning on having the entire floor carpeted by having java strands planted into the substrate for a "grass effect".
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-19-2015, 09:00 PM
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well if you are planning to do that then you still want to vac just hold it above the moss so it sucks the crap up. but not the moss it will take practice but it will work. you will still want to keep the moss clean so it doesn't get nasty looking. i had java moss that ended up getting black brush algae on it and it looked bad. i had to end up growing it emersed for a while to kill the algae. but just lightly vac over it.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-19-2015, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FuelingFire View Post
well if you are planning to do that then you still want to vac just hold it above the moss so it sucks the crap up. but not the moss it will take practice but it will work. you will still want to keep the moss clean so it doesn't get nasty looking. i had java moss that ended up getting black brush algae on it and it looked bad. i had to end up growing it emersed for a while to kill the algae. but just lightly vac over it.
By emerse you mean you grew the moss until it was protruding out the top of the tank?

Alright, I'll try practicing the vac method.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-19-2015, 11:05 PM
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yea i took it out of the tank it was in and stuck it in a tank that just had rocks in it. and i stuck it in there with about a half a gallon water and i put a lid on the tank with a light and let the humidity formed by the water, it took off and grew pretty good. was greener than i ever saw it in the tank. but as long as a small part of the moss is in water or getting water it will grow immersed pretty good.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-20-2015, 05:03 PM
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MTS are horrible. I don't care what people say about population booms only resulting from excess food. I've seen perfectly run tanks covered in MTS. They ruin a nice tank.

Has anyone's MTS-free tank ever been killed by anaerobic gas? I'm genuinely curious. I don't understand the MTS/gas thing. When and how did it become a thing? Is there any proof?
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-20-2015, 05:34 PM
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I keep mts in all my planted tanks (black diamond substrate) I only have an abundant population in my 55g as I intentionally over feed that tank to ensure otos and cory get food (the other fish are such hogs). However my betta tanks and other community tanks I hardly ever see the mts in, they don't reproduce out of control unless you give them an overabundant food source. I even think my bettas and white clouds (different tanks) manage to eat them-trap door doesn't always save them.

Due to photobuckets new bs cost for use of images on forums I have deleted all photobucket accounts. I apologize if you enjoyed or found my photos helpful.
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