Series of fish deaths :( help :( - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Series of fish deaths :( help :(

so long story short,during the past 2 weeks im experincing some big deaths....starting with 2 sturisomas....to a whole school of lamp eye killifish....and now my dwarf gouramis and betta couple have died.....

the tank is about 66gal. a planted mid-tech tank.
the water parameters are : KH 5
PH 7.5
ammonia 0
nitrites<0.05 miligrams a litre.
nitrates also on a fine level.
temprature is around 28-30 celcious (85F)
the rest of the population includes some dwarf chiclids,discus and small tetras....

the fish are all eating fine,swimming fine....so the deaths are rather sudden,and im suspecting a bacterial or viral infection.....ive tried to do a 60% water change but it didnt help.....
they all seem to be eating,im feeding them mainly tetra bits,frozen cyclops and blood worms.
they all are also active,thought they seem to be breathing a bit heavily,but my nitrite levels are fine according to 3 test kits.....
a few fish do have white,stringy poop......

any idea what might be killing my tank ?
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 01:40 PM
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85 seems VERY high, did you put it that high to try and kill any virus? A normal temp would be like 75ish
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 01:43 PM
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White stringy poo is one sign of internal parasites. I would use a medicine that targets that sort of organism. There are several groups of internal parasites, and not all are killed by any one medication. I would start with something that is designed for fish, like Prasi Pro.

http://www.bigalspets.com/prazipro-4-fl-oz.html

Heavy breathing can be from disease or parasites. Without knowing, it is pretty difficult to treat. Just keeping the water clean is good.

Continue the water changes, emphasizing cleaning the bottom area where debris can accumulate. This can be a reservoir of disease or parasite organisms, and can interfere with medications. Clean the filter, too.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fishyfishy101 View Post
85 seems VERY high, did you put it that high to try and kill any virus? A normal temp would be like 75ish
i did,i had a night during which my heater stopped working,causing the water to cool enough for a few discus to catch white spots......no fish died off them and now the tank is clear of them by the way....

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Originally Posted by Diana View Post
White stringy poo is one sign of internal parasites. I would use a medicine that targets that sort of organism. There are several groups of internal parasites, and not all are killed by any one medication. I would start with something that is designed for fish, like Prasi Pro.

http://www.bigalspets.com/prazipro-4-fl-oz.html

Heavy breathing can be from disease or parasites. Without knowing, it is pretty difficult to treat. Just keeping the water clean is good.

Continue the water changes, emphasizing cleaning the bottom area where debris can accumulate. This can be a reservoir of disease or parasite organisms, and can interfere with medications. Clean the filter, too.
the prazipro link is broken,what does this medicine do? and cleaning the bottom is a bit troublesome for me,as i have Amano soil which puffs up from the smallest touches.....i do have a handful of khuli loaches which do a great job at cleaning tho....and the tank seems very clean in general....i do keep up water changes,although it seems to have no positive effect

assuming i did have a viral or bacterial infection,what signs should i look for? also,would feeding something like peas or cucumbers be any good? ive been recommended that at a few places...
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 01:55 PM
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Its probably the jump in temp that is killing / killed them. Less oxygen in the water as it gets warmer too, which would explain the heavy breathing. Temp swings are bad in general, even more so when going from cool to warm quickly. Slowly bring your temp back to around 80
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 02:02 PM
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Peas and other foods with roughage are helpful to prevent constipation. If the fish have internal parasites, you need to medicate to kill the parasites, then the peas or other foods can make sure the fish excrete the dead parasites.
Peas, Daphnia and other foods with an exoskeleton are good.

Prazi Pro is a medication that kills internal parasites. Hikari makes it.
I had linked a Big Als Pets page ('cause I know they ship internationally). I have no idea what is available in Israel.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Diana View Post
Peas and other foods with roughage are helpful to prevent constipation. If the fish have internal parasites, you need to medicate to kill the parasites, then the peas or other foods can make sure the fish excrete the dead parasites.
Peas, Daphnia and other foods with an exoskeleton are good.

Prazi Pro is a medication that kills internal parasites. Hikari makes it.
I had linked a Big Als Pets page ('cause I know they ship internationally). I have no idea what is available in Israel.
all sorts of JBL,API,Tetratech and seachem products are available here.....ill look for something against parasites.....hopefully things will end there.....
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmisha View Post
so long story short,during the past 2 weeks im experincing some big deaths....starting with 2 sturisomas....to a whole school of lamp eye killifish....and now my dwarf gouramis and betta couple have died.....

the tank is about 66gal. a planted mid-tech tank.
the water parameters are : KH 5
PH 7.5
ammonia 0
nitrites<0.05 miligrams a litre.
nitrates also on a fine level.
temprature is around 28-30 celcious (85F)
the rest of the population includes some dwarf chiclids,discus and small tetras....

the fish are all eating fine,swimming fine....so the deaths are rather sudden,and im suspecting a bacterial or viral infection.....ive tried to do a 60% water change but it didnt help.....
they all seem to be eating,im feeding them mainly tetra bits,frozen cyclops and blood worms.
they all are also active,thought they seem to be breathing a bit heavily,but my nitrite levels are fine according to 3 test kits.....
a few fish do have white,stringy poop......

any idea what might be killing my tank ?
How is their color? How is this tank filtered? As temps get high (which the discus love), the available oxygen gets much lower. I would throw meds willy nilly, as meds are toxic in and of themselves. What is the total stocking of this tank? Even more importantly, how long has it been running, what are the most recent additions (and when) and are you quarantining new fish? This is especially important in a discus tank.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by msjinkzd View Post
How is their color? How is this tank filtered? As temps get high (which the discus love), the available oxygen gets much lower. I would throw meds willy nilly, as meds are toxic in and of themselves. What is the total stocking of this tank? Even more importantly, how long has it been running, what are the most recent additions (and when) and are you quarantining new fish? This is especially important in a discus tank.
i use an external filter,Ehiem professional 2. which gets cleaned ones a month. it has some 2 layers of sponge and 2 layers of ceramec, which i obvsiouly wash only in tank water.
the tank has been running for 2 months,but i doubt that is the issue,as i do check my water parameters regularly.
i did not qaurantine any fish sadly.

the total community of the tank...or whats left of it,as another bunch of fish died from the time i posted this thread is 8 discus,some 4 of them are large,4 of them are medium in size.
4 Altum angelfish,all of which are small (about 2 inches in tall)
4 rosy barbs at max size
6 tetra cardinals (4 have died so far)
8 red nose tetras
10 silvertip tetras
3 denisons barbs
7 otocinclus
7 khuli loaches
8 white cloud minnows (4 of which have died)
an antsitrus
2 bolvanian rams
and 4 hillstream loaches.

fish that died so far sadly:
2 german blue rams
4 tetra cardinals
betta male and female
2 dwarf gouramis
10 lamp eye killifish
2 sturisomas
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 04:28 PM
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Umm you are way way way overstocked for a tank only 2 months old. There is no way your bb is developed enough for this load. Its no wonder your fish are dropping like flies.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by philipraposo1982 View Post
Umm you are way way way overstocked for a tank only 2 months old. There is no way your bb is developed enough for this load. Its no wonder your fish are dropping like flies.
cant agree with that. just like you dont need to wait for a green light to cross the road if there are no cars coming, theres no problem with adding up fish as long as the water parameters stay fine,which in my case i made sure of the whole time. not to mention that some of the ceramics in my tank werent new but came from an older system i had,which really helped the bacteria spread.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-30-2014, 09:39 PM
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I would say a combination of overstocking and temp fluctuations killed them. 85 seems very high. Even if youre trying to kill off parasites,ich, etc, it is recommended you raise to around 82,83 very slowly.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-01-2014, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmisha View Post
cant agree with that. just like you dont need to wait for a green light to cross the road if there are no cars coming, theres no problem with adding up fish as long as the water parameters stay fine,which in my case i made sure of the whole time. not to mention that some of the ceramics in my tank werent new but came from an older system i had,which really helped the bacteria spread.

I have to agree. The fear of overstocking is generally for the NONplanted tank. It was probably just one fish was weak or old, thus died, made u think that some disease was in your tank, u up the temp, and cooked those fish to death.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-01-2014, 01:25 PM
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With that many fish, as long as things stayed stable, they were OK.
But I agree that raising the temperature probably contributed to the deaths.
The high fish load was probably really close to using all the oxygen, and when the temperature was raised the oxygen level went down enough to start killing the fish.

I would highly recommend you remove at least 25% of the fish.
Things are OK when it is going well, but you have no cushion of safety when things go wrong.

Research the fish and remove all the fish that thrive in low temperature water.
One of the reasons fish thrive at a particular temperature is that their metabolism is well suited to getting the oxygen they need at that temperature.
A fish that lives in low temperature water fails to thrive or even dies at high temperature because they cannot get enough oxygen.

Without actually looking up each species to confirm their range I would remove
White Cloud Minnows
Denison Barbs
Rosy Barbs
Hillstream Loaches
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-01-2014, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Diana View Post
With that many fish, as long as things stayed stable, they were OK.
But I agree that raising the temperature probably contributed to the deaths.
The high fish load was probably really close to using all the oxygen, and when the temperature was raised the oxygen level went down enough to start killing the fish.

I would highly recommend you remove at least 25% of the fish.
Things are OK when it is going well, but you have no cushion of safety when things go wrong.

Research the fish and remove all the fish that thrive in low temperature water.
One of the reasons fish thrive at a particular temperature is that their metabolism is well suited to getting the oxygen they need at that temperature.
A fish that lives in low temperature water fails to thrive or even dies at high temperature because they cannot get enough oxygen.

Without actually looking up each species to confirm their range I would remove
White Cloud Minnows
Denison Barbs
Rosy Barbs
Hillstream Loaches
actually,the dension barbs and rosy barbs seem to be doing best of all fish,all being very active,and looking very healthy overall.

I agree that oxygen may have been the issue,especailly thinking that MOST (not all,but most) fish deaths happened during the night,when theres even less oxygen.....althought what got me off it was the idea that shouldnt the fish be behaving badly,and staying at the top of the tank or something if oxygen was a problem? because they never did......

also a question,assuming ive had some nitrite jumps or something,how long would it take a nitrite posioning to kill a fish such as a cardinal tetra for example? because even thought ive done all i can to perfect my water parameters yesterday and the night passed deathless,today by noon i found 2 cardinal tetras floating......
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