Deficiency or Snails? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 134
Deficiency or Snails?

My swords and crypts are getting holes, particularly in the newer leaves. Also some holes in the rotala.

Lowish tech - med light with excel, occasional ei dose.

The pic is kinda out of focus because I wanted to show some of the snails that are in the tank
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1446.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	73.1 KB
ID:	384425  

baronen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 09:00 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,339
Since the damage is a little blurry, let me give you this general rule of thumb:


If the edges of the holes are neat and green, the damage is mechanical (ie: something like snails eating things, or a mad household member with a hole punch going to town...)

ie: http://deficiencyfinder.com/?page_id=772

If the holes are surrounded by yellow/brown "halos" then defficiency is likely. Particularly if the spots occur first, then holes form shortly afterward.

ie: http://deficiencyfinder.com/?page_id=592
mattinmd is offline  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 134
The crypts are clean cut damage but the sword has a little browning around it
baronen is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 10:04 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
philipraposo1982's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,020
snails

75 Gallon Low Tech w/ Green Terror Pair
philipraposo1982 is offline  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 10:36 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
JoeRoun's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 634
Smile Agreed

Hi,

Deficiency, best guess iron but may be general.

Yes those helpful little snails are cleaning the decay as best they can, keeping nastier problems at bay.

Respectfully,
Joe
FBTB

If your Guru tells you otherwise and you are true believer that is okay I will not argue the point.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I pretty much limit what I say to things that anyone can easily verify from recognized references or by direct observation. If it is my opinion I say so.

JoeRoun is offline  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 10:47 PM
Planted Tanker
 
burr740's Avatar
 
PTrader: (131/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 5,848
Snails


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




burr740 is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 11:03 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,339
I'm with JoeRoun... Since you have some with brown margins, I'm betting on a deficiency, but the snails are running around cleaning up the edges and destroying the evidence.

How's your potassium dosing? An easy way here would be to up potassium dosing and see if the problem lessens.. If it continues, it is probably snails.
mattinmd is offline  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 11:44 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
JoeRoun's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 634
Smile Snails Mostly Only Want to Help

Hi,

Few snails that have macrophyte capabilities; they just do not have the equipment to damage healthy plants.

Add to that if you have snails capable of that damage, it would be all over the place.

The plant in the picture looks to be a big eater, probably iron deficiency, leaf thinness, holes; snails cleaning up is an indication of iron deficiency, particularly noticeable in Echinodorus spp.

Respectfully,
Joe
FBTB

If your Guru tells you otherwise and you are true believer that is okay I will not argue the point.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I pretty much limit what I say to things that anyone can easily verify from recognized references or by direct observation. If it is my opinion I say so.

JoeRoun is offline  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 12:06 AM
Planted Tanker
 
burr740's Avatar
 
PTrader: (131/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 5,848
Its hard to tell from that one pic, but the area just above the main hole looks to have some abrasive damage where the leaf tissue is scraped thin. Whether it be from snails or something else, to me it looks mechanical.

More pics would help.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.





Last edited by burr740; 10-28-2014 at 12:19 AM. Reason: .
burr740 is offline  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 01:06 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 134
Since it seems to be an open debate, I tried to get some better pics

If anything id say I overdose potassium
root tabs added as well

I also have a hairy puffer in this tank and I've seen what he can do to plants on accident-nothing like this. Also the reason why I have a lot of snails (ramshorn, mts, pond etc.)

As you can see, that crypt leave is eaten, rotted, whatever, to the vein
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1451.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	41.9 KB
ID:	384577  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1452.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	53.3 KB
ID:	384585  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1453.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	41.2 KB
ID:	384593  

baronen is offline  
post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 01:17 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Contra Costa CA
Posts: 11,721
Ditto the above concept:
Most aquarium snails (pond, Rams Horn) cannot initiate the leaf damage.
But they sure will move in on compromised tissue and can expand the damage from that spot.
Diana is offline  
post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 01:26 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Gatineau, Canada
Posts: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana View Post
Ditto the above concept:
Most aquarium snails (pond, Rams Horn) cannot initiate the leaf damage.
But they sure will move in on compromised tissue and can expand the damage from that spot.
So glad to see this comment. This has been my understanding: Snails would normally eat dead/weaken tissue hence a clean edge. But I lack evidence and experience to "prove" it.

I also have a thread that is somewhat an open debate too. anubias new born leave with holes. I have only one type of plant affected, the Anubias.

Looking forward to see how this thread turns out.
Mariostg is offline  
post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 10:33 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
JoeRoun's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 634
Smile A Matter of Dogma

Hi,

Snail eats plants is a religious issue, ever strike you as strange no one is ever required to explain how the snail or whatever critter manages to bite the leaf to begin with, those who think, seem to be required to prove the negative. It is just stupid!

Most of the aforementioned snails eat by laying down a film that traps little beasties and other nutrients, then come back and lap up the yummys.

An area of plant decay is simply a target rich environment with all the yummy little beasties devouring the decaying material, the lucky snail is simply devouring the yummy little beasties, which have been feasting on dead and dying plant tissue.

Bring the plant back to health, usually nutritional, but correct whatever the problem and the plants go back to being feeding mats for the snails, rather than feasts for the yummy little beasties.

This snail behavior is easily observed and for good measure add real plant eaters and see what happens.

The plants I see the claim the snails, the Bristlenose catfish, the “whatever-sucker” fish is eating my plants are Swords, Echinodorus whatever and other root feeders. Based on my experience and a serious look at the Echinodorus spp., iron seemed to be the most common deficiency.

Everyone will conclude at anubias new born leave with holes that it must be snails because to do otherwise would be to face up to a symptom being a failure on the part of the plant-keeper.


{Rant Alert}

There are many retailers and manufacturers out there hoping to sell whatever toxin they can to “solve” the problem. Then sell the poor shmuck more toxins, more garbage to fix the problem that some religious leader well absolutely command everyone to believe were not caused by the toxins, but a lack of CO2 that can only be delivered by ridiculously priced machined valves and out priced regulators. Or whatever thing, “they” are trying to sell this month.

Not worth the arguing in my ever humble opinion.

Respectfully,
Joe
FBTB

If your Guru tells you otherwise and you are true believer that is okay I will not argue the point.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I pretty much limit what I say to things that anyone can easily verify from recognized references or by direct observation. If it is my opinion I say so.

JoeRoun is offline  
post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-03-2014, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 134
Quick update-

It seems that it was a deficiency. I've been doing a heavier ei dose and placed a few more tabs and the newest sword leaf only developed one small hole, and the crypts havent had a hole since... Thanks!
baronen is offline  
post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-03-2014, 09:33 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
JoeRoun's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 634
Smile Big Surprise… It Is Not the Snails!

Hi,

Some of your plants are big eaters. When you get to the point you think you are feeding them enough, add a bit more. As they grow, increase the feeding and your lovable little snails will not be a problem.

Respectfully,
Joe
FBTB

If your Guru tells you otherwise and you are true believer that is okay I will not argue the point.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I pretty much limit what I say to things that anyone can easily verify from recognized references or by direct observation. If it is my opinion I say so.

JoeRoun is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome