Photoperiod hours, noon burst, noon siesta: Which and how long? - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-24-2008, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
Pelvicachromis Lover!
 
Complexity's Avatar
 
PTrader: (34/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,090
Photoperiod hours, noon burst, noon siesta: Which and how long?

Yeah, yeah, another darn thread about lighting. But I need help figuring out how to bring my 75g tank from medium light to high light.

I'm using EI dosing method and have injected CO2. My fixture is TEK 4x56, Giesemann lamps, 2 Midday and 2 Aquablue. They are close to the water's surface. I have plants that want high light, but only medium plant mass (working on that!).

As a personal preference, I would rather have the lights on for 12 hours, but I know that's too much. I'd rather do a midday siesta than to turn my lights on later in the morning or earlier at night. My goal would be having the lights on the longest time possible.

What photoperiod would you guys suggest? Should I run all 4 lamps all day, do a noon burst or a noon siesta or something else? What works for you?

Vicki Rena Filstar pimp #142 (four XP4s/three XP2s/one XP1) Eheim pimp #301 (Pro II 2128) Victor pimp #27 (VTS-253B-320)

90g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe' 75g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'Lagos Red'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

29g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'unknown' -- 29g - Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe'
5g - RCS colony 2.5g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Retired

Last edited by Complexity; 09-24-2008 at 09:56 PM. Reason: To add which tank I'm talking about
Complexity is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-24-2008, 09:41 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (266/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,417
I'm guessing this is your 75g tank.

With pressurized CO2 and EI fertilizing, you could probably keep all four bulbs on for 6-8 hours a day. And only if the tank is heavily planted.

Otherwise, I'd do two bulbs for 8 hours, all four bulbs for a burst of 4-5 hours.
epicfish is offline  
post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-24-2008, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
Pelvicachromis Lover!
 
Complexity's Avatar
 
PTrader: (34/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,090
Yes, sorry, it's for my 75g (you're a good mind reader!).

Okay, so while the plants are growing in, two bulbs for 8 hours with a 4-5 hour burst.

After I finally get enough growth, I would then increase the burst until I get 6-8 hours with both lights full time.

Dang, only 8 hours maximum either way? Not much time to enjoy it all.

What if I broke it into 3 photo periods with 2 siestas in between?

]9am-noon = 3 hours ON
noon-2pm = 2 hours OFF
2pm-5pm = 3 hours ON
5pm-7pm = 2 hours OFF
7pm-10pm = 3 hours ON

Total of 9 hours on. I could mess with the timing for the 2 lamps and 4 lamps within the 9 hours.

Would something like that mess everything up? I bet it would, but I have to ask.

Vicki Rena Filstar pimp #142 (four XP4s/three XP2s/one XP1) Eheim pimp #301 (Pro II 2128) Victor pimp #27 (VTS-253B-320)

90g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe' 75g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'Lagos Red'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

29g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'unknown' -- 29g - Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe'
5g - RCS colony 2.5g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Retired
Complexity is offline  
 
post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 03:05 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
ikuzo's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 2,146
Send a message via Yahoo to ikuzo
if you're sure you have good CO2 level, go straight for 8-9 hours. no need for off period / siesta.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ikuzo is offline  
post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
Pelvicachromis Lover!
 
Complexity's Avatar
 
PTrader: (34/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,090
Injected CO2 with a pH Controller. Double-Check drop checker shows the same color as the reference color. And I pushed the CO2 as far as I could until I saw signs of fish stress, and then took it down a notch (I'm going to try to bump it up again, if possible).

So CO2 should be good to go.

I also notice that when I turn both sets of lights on, the plants really throw off the oxygen (is that respiration?). So I can see a dramatic change between having 2 lamps and 4 lamps burning.

Fighting BBA and GDA. The GDA doesn't bother me, and I'm aggressively attacking the BBA now with Excel and CO2.

The main reason I was considering a siesta is because I want to run my lights for 12 hours, not just 8 or 9. But I understand I can't do that. So I'm trying to find a way to have the lights on at least in the morning and evening when I want them on the most.

Maybe I should just wait to turn them on at noon and then let them stay on until 9pm. That's 9 hours. I'll miss my morning, but at least I get the evening.

Vicki Rena Filstar pimp #142 (four XP4s/three XP2s/one XP1) Eheim pimp #301 (Pro II 2128) Victor pimp #27 (VTS-253B-320)

90g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe' 75g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'Lagos Red'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

29g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'unknown' -- 29g - Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe'
5g - RCS colony 2.5g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Retired
Complexity is offline  
post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
Pelvicachromis Lover!
 
Complexity's Avatar
 
PTrader: (34/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,090
Oh, and I should also mention that Tex_Gal is being incredibly generous in sending me some cuttings to help recover from my losses from Ike. Most (all?) of them require high light. So I think these next few weeks will be really important that I cross-over from med light to high light if I want these plants to take off.

I need to get these plants growing and as healthy as possible since I have to move the tank in 2-4 weeks! I don't have much time.

Vicki Rena Filstar pimp #142 (four XP4s/three XP2s/one XP1) Eheim pimp #301 (Pro II 2128) Victor pimp #27 (VTS-253B-320)

90g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe' 75g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'Lagos Red'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

29g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'unknown' -- 29g - Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe'
5g - RCS colony 2.5g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Retired
Complexity is offline  
post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 05:11 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lakeland, FL
Posts: 138
I had the same problem as you. My tank is in my room and the only times I see it are in the morning and at night, about 12 hours apart. To solve it a propped up an old 15 watt hood to use as a sunrise/sunset light. Works great as I can now shorten my photoperiod and have the other light on so I can still view my tank.
I'm going out today to get a t5 under cabinet light to use instead of the strip light. I'll also need another timer so I can have my led moonlights, sunrise/sunset, and main lights going. (time to build a light controller...)
pb300 is offline  
post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 05:28 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
jcardona1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (22/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 866
here's my thread on lighting schedules, maybe it will help

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/li...staggered.html

~ Jose


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jcardona1 is offline  
post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
Pelvicachromis Lover!
 
Complexity's Avatar
 
PTrader: (34/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,090
pb300, I was considering using a cheap, dim lamp for the "off" times in which I still want to see the fish, but it sure would be cramped inside my canopy.

jcardona1, that thread is great! That's the kind of information I had hoped to find, thank you. It helps to give me a starting place on how to schedule the lights that not only work for the plants/algae issue, but also for my desire to actually see my tank!

I also found it interesting that others are using 2 siestas in the day instead of just 1. I through out my earlier example mainly to get the idea rolling, thinking I'd be told one siesta is the most I should try, but it seems 2 work for others!

I've honestly been afraid to use the other 2 lamps because I know things that go wrong, go wrong in a hurry with more lighting. But then why did I get all this gear if I'm too afraid to use it?

So I'm going to try to do what I comprehend in my head but find it more difficult to actually do, which is to work very hard to take care of the plants instead of worrying about the algae (with the BBA being a different issue, of course). So I'm trying to give the plants more ferts and CO2 than they need so they can keep up with the light and out-compete the algae. I believe once I finally get passed this last step, I'll have the tank I wanted.

Vicki Rena Filstar pimp #142 (four XP4s/three XP2s/one XP1) Eheim pimp #301 (Pro II 2128) Victor pimp #27 (VTS-253B-320)

90g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe' 75g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'Lagos Red'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

29g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'unknown' -- 29g - Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe'
5g - RCS colony 2.5g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Retired
Complexity is offline  
post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 09:19 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
rich815's Avatar
 
PTrader: (34/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Albany, CA (San Francisco area)
Posts: 1,115
I've heard the theory (that I have not proven nor disproven scientifically) that a siesta benefits algae and not plants. That plants need more time from when the lights first go on to warm up their "engines" and start using nutrients effectively, while algae requires almost no time, or less time. And by having a siesta you are in essence shutting down the plants for a spell only to have them have to go through the warmup period when the siesta is over. In the mean time during those two warm-up times for the plants the algae are getting all the benefits of the light without have to compete as much with the plants. The result: more chance for algae. I used to break up my lighting in 5 hours in the morning, then 5 hours from late afternoon to evening. Later on I changed it to 8 hours from 2pm to 10pm with no siesta and just accept I cannot really see my fish and tank in the morning. My algae issues have gone down significantly since.

---------
My tank:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Photography Website (my other hobby)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
rich815 is offline  
post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 09:31 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 73
Just raise your lights. The PAR values will drop a good bit in the aquarium, and you can run them all on for your regular photoperiod.
speakerguy is offline  
post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 09:55 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
jcardona1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (22/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich815 View Post
I've heard the theory (that I have not proven nor disproven scientifically) that a siesta benefits algae and not plants. That plants need more time from when the lights first go on to warm up their "engines" and start using nutrients effectively, while algae requires almost no time, or less time. And by having a siesta you are in essence shutting down the plants for a spell only to have them have to go through the warmup period when the siesta is over. In the mean time during those two warm-up times for the plants the algae are getting all the benefits of the light without have to compete as much with the plants. The result: more chance for algae. I used to break up my lighting in 5 hours in the morning, then 5 hours from late afternoon to evening. Later on I changed it to 8 hours from 2pm to 10pm with no siesta and just accept I cannot really see my fish and tank in the morning. My algae issues have gone down significantly since.
ive read on this forum the complete opposite, that algae, not plants, is the one that is sensitive to black out periods

~ Jose


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jcardona1 is offline  
post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 11:02 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
rich815's Avatar
 
PTrader: (34/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Albany, CA (San Francisco area)
Posts: 1,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcardona1 View Post
ive read on this forum the complete opposite, that algae, not plants, is the one that is sensitive to black out periods
Are we talking short couple hour "siestas" or multi-day black-out periods? I never heard of a short break in the lighting at mid-day referred to as a "black-out" period.

And yes, as for what I understand as "black-out" periods, being 3-4 days, it kills off some kinds of algae but not the plants (or not most of them anyway).

But I thought this was about breaking the daily lighting period into two separate times with a small dark period in the middle of the day, maybe a couple hours.

---------
My tank:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Photography Website (my other hobby)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
rich815 is offline  
post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-26-2008, 01:17 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lakeland, FL
Posts: 138
Quote:
but it sure would be cramped inside my canopy.
Got my under cabinet T5 from wal-mart today. They are 5/8 x 1 3/4, and they come in 8, 13, and 23 in versions. Really don't take up a lot of space and I was able to mount it on my coralife using the mounting tabs for the legs. You can link multiple units together also.
Provides a nice low light in the tank making it easy to see the fish and plants.
pb300 is offline  
post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-26-2008, 04:27 AM
Guest
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 329
I agree with rich815 and others, all the info I've seen(which is few and far between) is that on a tank with good pressurized CO2 a straight photo-period is better than a "siesta". Will a siesta work:Yes. Do the plants prefer it? I dont think so.

Now there are a couple situations where is may be an OK idea to do a siesta, but there are other con's as well.

So depending on the specific situation, using a "siesta" so that you can have more viewing time is up to you.

Question:What is the opposite of "siesta"?
Answer: Noon Burst

This is one of the favorite proven methods on a good pressurized co2 tank, which would be totally opposite of a siesta. Just food for thought.
SpeedEuphoria is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome