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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2008, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Mendel's chart

Does anybody know where online to find a Gregor Mendel chart where you input the info?
My cacatuoides started breeding again and I was trying to find out what I was gonna end up with.

The original parents were-
Albino Orange Flash (Male) x Regular Coloration (Female)= All Regular Coloration offspring

From them
l
l
l
V
Breeding Pair-
Regular Coloration (Male) x Regular Coloration (Female) = ?

Am I gonna get some Regular Albinos? Orange Flash Non-Albinos? Orange Flash Albinos?

Any help would be great!

Thanks

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2008, 03:22 PM
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You can't really tell unless you know if the coloration genes are dominant or recessive. You can figure that out after the babies are born by placing the offspring in the chart but for now it's just a guessing game.


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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2008, 03:23 PM
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I think the chart you are talking about in called a "Punnet Square"

From my own calculations,

Assuming that the Orange Flash Albino allele is the recessive trait (r) and the Regular coloration is the dominant trait (R). The Original father would be "rr" and the female would either be "Rr" or "RR". Assuming that if the female was "RR", the cross between the "rr" father and the "RR" mother would give you 100% "Rr" which would all show the dominant trait (regular coloration). I think this might be what the original parents might be since the offspring both displayed the dominant trait.

As for your question :
Quote:
Am I gonna get some Regular Albinos? Orange Flash Non-Albinos? Orange Flash Albinos?
If both the offspring are "Rr", if they do breed, their offspring should be 25% RR, 50% Rr, and 25% rr. If my calculations are right, then you should have 75% Regular colored offspring and 25% of the offspring should be Orange Flash Albino.

I might be wrong though.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2008, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input

Quote:
OhNo123I think the chart you are talking about in called a "Punnet Square"

From my own calculations,

Assuming that the Orange Flash Albino allele is the recessive trait (r) and the Regular coloration is the dominant trait (R). The Original father would be "rr" and the female would either be "Rr" or "RR". Assuming that if the female was "RR", the cross between the "rr" father and the "RR" mother would give you 100% "Rr" which would all show the dominant trait (regular coloration). I think this might be what the original parents might be since the offspring both displayed the dominant trait.

As for your question : Quote:
Am I gonna get some Regular Albinos? Orange Flash Non-Albinos? Orange Flash Albinos?
If both the offspring are "Rr", if they do breed, their offspring should be 25% RR, 50% Rr, and 25% rr. If my calculations are right, then you should have 75% Regular colored offspring and 25% of the offspring should be Orange Flash Albino.

I might be wrong though.
Thats if your figuring that the the albino and orange flash is a result of the same gene. They are seperate traits. You can have Regular orange flash, Albino Orange flash, Regular Albino, And Regular from the traits in my fish I believe. So I figure I have a couple genes at work here. I remember in highschool doing multiple gene Punnet squares. I just can't remember how to do it

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2008, 06:37 PM
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Though I'm not sure about shrimp in particular, when you factor in related alleles, it's very difficult to isolate and promote a single trait. Unless you can find literature regarding which traits are dominant/recessive and which characteristics are linked, you'll have to experiment for several generations worth of brood before you can gather enough information to be able to have an effective breeding program. I grew up amongst dog show folks and while the numbers were few, those who had knowledge enough to apply Mendel's principles to their breeding programs fiercely guarded their knowledge.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2008, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumiSumi View Post
Though I'm not sure about shrimp in particular, when you factor in related alleles, it's very difficult to isolate and promote a single trait. Unless you can find literature regarding which traits are dominant/recessive and which characteristics are linked, you'll have to experiment for several generations worth of brood before you can gather enough information to be able to have an effective breeding program. I grew up amongst dog show folks and while the numbers were few, those who had knowledge enough to apply Mendel's principles to their breeding programs fiercely guarded their knowledge.
agree. Most traits are not "mendelian." In fact ole' Greg fudged some of his numbers in pea plants, to make them look better. Only really close breeding experiments will determine the nature of the genes involved. I do lots of genetics with fruit flies, where the genome is reasonably annotated and many genetic tools available, and some traits still can't be "mapped."

Also, the fish genome is fairly complicated. The fish lineage went through two rounds of genome duplications, creating a situation where there are many redundant genes.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2008, 08:41 PM
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Oh for some reason I thought it was shrimp! Silly me.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 04:13 PM
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It's true that very little genetics are truly determined by mendelian genetics and punnet squares. However, I do research with zebrafish and when we have mutant or genetically altered lines that we are using, when we cross 2 heterozygous animals (Rr for example) we usually do get close to 25% RR, 50% Rr and 25% rr animals. You are looking at 2 genes though, so it certainly gets more complicated. The one good thing though, is that you can be pretty sure all of the offspring of the first generation are heterozygous for the Orange flash (Oo lets say) and the Albino trait (Aa let's say) because you didn't end up with any babies that are either albino or orange flash from the first crossing, so you can assume the female wasn't a carrier of either gene. I was doing genetics for 2 traits the other week and this wikipedia site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square helped me! It doesn't do it for you, but it helped me remember how to do it myself. Based on that, you SHOULD be looking at approximately 1/16 (6.25%) albino orange flash fish, 18.75% just albino and 18.75% just orange flash (1/3 of each of those homozygous for the dominant trait, 2/3 heterozygous for the dominant trait)


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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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