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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Question about instant cycle...

Yesterday I emptied a 4 and 10 gallon and combined substrate, filters and plants into 1 10 gallon. The water was combined as well. With this being said is there any reason this new tank shouldn't be cycled already? Both tanks were cycled had been running for months.


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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 03:28 PM
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Tank Cycling

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Originally Posted by BulletToothBoris View Post
Yesterday I emptied a 4 and 10 gallon and combined substrate, filters and plants into 1 10 gallon. The water was combined as well. With this being said is there any reason this new tank shouldn't be cycled already? Both tanks were cycled had been running for months.
Hello Bull...

The water doesn't do anything for the cycle. It has no bacteria in it. Bacteria needs a surface. The gravel, decorations and the filter media from the established tanks will help cycle the new, larger tank.

You can add a few small fish to the 10 G, but you'll still need to test the tank water to make sure the good bacteria is alive and using the dissolved fish waste.

B

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 03:28 PM
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No, the reason is the new tank still needs to build up it's own beneficial bacteria colonies, by using the substrate, and filters from already cycled tanks will only speed up the cycling time. I don't care what anyone says, there's no such thing as an instant cycle for aquariums; Even the guys on "Tanked" are full of it, by adding live bacteria to a tank doesn't mean a thing, all they're doing is speeding up the cycling time.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 03:35 PM
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If the filter media went in uncleaned (with its original bacteria) then you should be fine. Using the existing water simply ensures you have not shocked the bacteria with a new chemically different water. Of more cocern would be the substrate since once significantly disturbed it may have released toxins into the water. Hopefully you only disturbed it after removing most of the water and then rinsed it before putting it into the new tank.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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Everything, even the tank itself, is established. I'm sure there is free ammonia from disturbing and mixing the substrate but why would bacteria be affected? I didn't wash or rinse anything.


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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 04:48 PM
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without posting any links, Ill let ya'll dig:

-all water that is aged has tons of bacteria, mixed heterotrophics. filthy amounts, and a huge portion is nitrifiers. a large, significant portion of the mixed communities in the water on floc and various aggregates are nitrifying bacteria. find the links, they will either prove or disprove it. links exist for both

yes it instant cycles, every tank Ive ever built was done this way, I dont cycle, I opt out. reefs included. There is an ammonia risk however, associated with large pockets of organics mid decomp in the mud/bed

disturb that, get an ammonia cycle but much of whats said about the bacteria has actual bacteria disagreeing. they are everywhere, especially in bodies of water, some free floating, most associated with biological aggregates in the water. things that filters catch and hold...your bacteria was not affected in any way, in fact the disturbance of ammonia will temporarily increase the BOD depending on how much organics was xferred over due to a temporary bloom, then back to steady state depending on the variables of the newer tank.

the recent study on advancedaquarist.com about bottle bac is one huge good read about bac

any ammonia we see in moving tank situations is from disturbed organics+ammonia greater than the current balance of nitrifiers set to the continual amounts of ammonia in the water column, its not dead bacteria unless meds factor into the equation somehow

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Last edited by brandon429; 09-11-2014 at 05:26 PM. Reason: sp
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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^Yeah what he said.


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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 07:30 PM
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http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...43135402001690

lets add to discussion with this, you can find them in post treated tap water

check your local water supply readouts for total aerobic counts if provided, nitrifiers are part of them.

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Last edited by brandon429; 09-11-2014 at 07:57 PM. Reason: sp
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 07:56 PM
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there are most likely nitrifiers coming out of all your taps. In your kitchen, those little black rubber washers on your faucet output have probably 20K cfus of nitrifiers alone due to nice scum shielding

the point is, these buggers get around man. They are in your eyeball fluid right now being attacked by t-cells, trying to find something to eat. Nitrifiers adapt!!

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 07:59 PM
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Nitrifying bacteria double every 20 hours under ideal conditions.

So you can double the bioload in the tank every 24 hours once it is established. It also means that you can remove 50% of the bacteria in a day and have it recover in 24 hours.

So the answer to bulls questions is no you don't expect to see any ammonia.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2014, 08:00 PM
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thats a neat way to see the populations. I once thought they were much faster until you linked whereever that was that showed 20 hours, I think a hovanec article

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-12-2014, 04:38 AM
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I would go ahead and trust the new set up for no more livestock than was in one or the other of the tanks, but probably not both.

Keeping all the filter media intact is very good, but that is only about half the bacteria.
The other half were on the uppermost layer of substrate, where the maximum oxygen was. Now it is all mixed up. The pieces of substrate that have now landed lower down will not be in contact with the ammonia so the bacteria cannot help you. The pieces that came from lower down in the original tanks have a smaller bacteria population. They do not double in 20 minutes. The nitrifying bacteria take many hours (over half a day) to double in population.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-12-2014, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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All the fauna in there now is a bunch of MTSs. FYI the cap from the 10g is being used for the cap in this 10g so all the surface bac should be okay.

My 1 betta and 6 rasboras along with 2 ghost shrimp and 2 nerites are in another tank waiting for this new one to be ready. Its been 2 days so it should be good to go right?


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