Yay Hybrid time! - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 05:17 AM Thread Starter
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Yay Hybrid time!

Well i FINALLY found the Male i was looking for now i can start working on my Selective Breeding! I am crossing a Male Sail fin Molly with 2 Different Lyre tail Female Molly's.The hope is to get a Sail fin Lyre tail Molly!
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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 05:25 AM
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Hybrid typically means crossing species. So, the offspring of two Molly strains won't be hybrids.
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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by macclellan View Post
Hybrid typically means crossing species. So, the offspring of two Molly strains won't be hybrids.
Why you gotta burst everyone's bubble?

But of course he's right. You're making mutts! :P
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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by macclellan View Post
Hybrid typically means crossing species. So, the offspring of two Molly strains won't be hybrids.
Think again.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This hy·brid // Audio Help /ˈhaɪbrɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hahy-brid] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.the offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera, esp. as produced through human manipulation for specific genetic characteristics.


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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 06:05 AM Thread Starter
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Think again.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This hy·brid // Audio Help /ˈhaɪbrɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hahy-brid] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.the offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera, esp. as produced through human manipulation for specific genetic characteristics.
BINGO thank ya Les couldn't have said it better myself.
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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
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Why you gotta burst everyone's bubble?

But of course he's right. You're making mutts! :P
]

Nope he is wrong, look at Definition right below your post. Not making mutts But i do know what i would like to see, I love the Lyre tail and I love the BIG top Sailfin, And i think a fish with both would be AWESOME!
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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 06:18 AM
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I love the Lyre tail and I love the BIG top Sailfin, And i think a fish with both would be AWESOME!
Right on! I'm all for testing and experimenting too,however I now concentrate on inanimate objects.


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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 06:20 AM
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I thought a Hybrid was a type of vehicle.

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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 06:21 AM
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You're going to have to do a little better than quoting dictionary.com Les...(jeez, you're obnoxiousness permeated my "ignore list" thanks to Vance quoting you - quite a feat). Of course "hybrid" can mean many things, even in a biological context - but far and away what is most commonly meant is an interspecific hybrid - two species in the same genus - such as a mule (horse and donkey) or a liger (tiger and lion). I gather this is the accepted meaning here too. You don't see folks with CRS and CBS fussing about "hybrids," or those with Bettas, but you do see folks with RCS and Snowballs fussing about "hybrids." By your promiscuous definition, crossing a Hyno with a SS-grade CRS would be a "hybrid" since they are different "breeds" - not exactly standard usage. Nonetheless, I know there are other uses of the term, which is why I used the word typically in my first post.

Hybrid or not, it would be cool if you can make that Molly cross, Vaughn! Sounds neat!

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You're making mutts! :P
There not mutts if you come up with a clever name! :P
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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by macclellan View Post
You're going to have to do a little better than quoting dictionary.com Les...(jeez, you're obnoxiousness permeated my "ignore list" thanks to Vance quoting you - quite a feat). Of course "hybrid" can mean many things, even in a biological context - but far and away what is most commonly meant is an interspecific hybrid - two species in the same genus - such as a mule (horse and donkey) or a liger (tiger and lion). I gather this is the accepted meaning here too. You don't see folks with CRS and CBS fussing about "hybrids," or those with Bettas, but you do see folks with RCS and Snowballs fussing about "hybrids." By your promiscuous definition, crossing a Hyno with a SS-grade CRS would be a "hybrid" since they are different "breeds" - not exactly standard usage. Nonetheless, I know there are other uses of the term, which is why I used the word typically in my first post.

Hybrid or not, it would be cool if you can make that Molly cross, Vaughn! Sounds neat!



There not mutts if you come up with a clever name! :P
Could you save the class room lectures for your students please. Really.I know Teachers Hate to be proven wrong, But the Definition speaks for itself, What You think it "typically" means isn't the point, the point is by definition it is in fact a Hybrid. I used the term Hybrid for a reason, because i set the breeding up so that the only choice for the male was THOSE two females, thus produced through human manipulation for specific genetic characteristics Thus Hybrid. While i agree the Term Hybrid is Usually Used for Cross Species Mixes My usage of the term was also correct.Even teachers cant be right 100% of the time, that's the flaw of being human.
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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 06:19 PM
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I think what Macclellan meant (as indicated by both the word "typically" in his first post and his explanation) is that while your use of the word "hybrid" is technically correct, when talking about the kind of cross your doing, "hybrid" is not the typical word people would use. For example, double crowntail Bettas are not called "Crown-tail double-tail hybrids" even though that would be technically correct. Hybrid is usually used to describe 2 separate but related species being mixed. That being said, I am drawing a blank on the "typical" word one would use to describe the kind of cross you are doing.

BUT ANYWAY

I agree, I think a Molly with both the Sailfin and Lyretail trait would be an exquisite fish!!! As, I agree, they are both very cool and beautiful traits! Good luck!


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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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I agree, I think a Molly with both the Sailfin and Lyretail trait would be an exquisite fish!!! As, I agree, they are both very cool and beautiful traits! Good luck!
I Just hope i get it! Im looking for some More cool Lyre tails.
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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 06:37 PM
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Shouldn't be too hard I wouldn't think...All you need is a few babies showing both traits...If one or both of the traits are recessive you won't see the double until you breed the offspring of the ones you have now with each other (unless one of the parent fish is a carrier of that recessive trait by some miracle ). If one of the traits is dominant, you'll only need to breed the ones showing that trait with each other. You might get some cool phenotypes though if one of the traits is only semi-dominant! Like with zebra danios, the long-fin trait is semi-dominant so fish heterozygous for for long-fin/short-fin have an in between reverse shark-tale looking phenotype. Very cool.

Of course....there could be more than one gene that determines "lyre-tail" or "sail-fin" (more likely with lyre-tail) and then you're just gonna have to keep breeding and looking until you get the right mix and then breed those offspring together until they breed true.

Anyway....that was probably more biology than you needed or wanted :-P Sorry


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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Shouldn't be too hard I wouldn't think...All you need is a few babies showing both traits...If one or both of the traits are recessive you won't see the double until you breed the offspring of the ones you have now with each other (unless one of the parent fish is a carrier of that recessive trait by some miracle ). If one of the traits is dominant, you'll only need to breed the ones showing that trait with each other. You might get some cool phenotypes though if one of the traits is only semi-dominant! Like with zebra danios, the long-fin trait is semi-dominant so fish heterozygous for for long-fin/short-fin have an in between reverse shark-tale looking phenotype. Very cool.

Of course....there could be more than one gene that determines "lyre-tail" or "sail-fin" (more likely with lyre-tail) and then you're just gonna have to keep breeding and looking until you get the right mix and then breed those offspring together until they breed true.

Anyway....that was probably more biology than you needed or wanted :-P Sorry
No actually that was very helpful as far as What i need to do other than "letting nature take its course". So if i happen to get 2 babies that look like what i want i need to Continually breed those two together to get the Pure Strain i want? and if they show Either one or the other i need to keep breeding those with the parents in the hopes of getting what im looking for? Want to make sure i understand it correctly.
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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 07:14 PM
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So let's say your first cross you end with all babies showing none of your desired traits, or "muted" traits (in a semi-dominant secenario) don't panic, They should all be heterozygous for both of your desired traits. This means THEORETICALLY (genetics is never QUITE as simple in reality as in theory) you can cross any male offspring to any female offspring and 25% of those SHOULD have both traits. You'd then cross those offspring with each other and hopefully end up with babies homozygous for both your desired traits.

If some of your first babies have one of the traits then that trait is dominant so only breed together the ones showing it (in that case any not showing the trait will be homozygous for the recessive form so you can't use them).

My guess is both traits are recessive, but you never know, the pretty but harder to swim with long-fin form of Zebra danios is semi-dominant, but most fish in the wild carry the recessive short-fin trait because they're better swimmers.

You shouldn't need to cross any of the babies back to the original parents because the parents are only carrying one of the traits you're after.

The 2 things that could make this more complicated though are

1) if one of the traits is sex-linked

2) if one of the traits is determined by more than 1 gene

but you only need to look into how to get around those issues if after the second crossing you're not seeing any fish with both traits. Actually, if the second one is true, you should still see fish with both traits, but it'll be less than 25%...you should still see them though i'd think


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