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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
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EI and plant issues

Hello,

I have spent awhile researching and I still find myself confused by a few things. I have started EI dosing this week to replace Seachem's Flourish dosing system. I have noticed my Ludwigia droping leaves that seem to have lost their color and are transitioning to clear with ragged holes after making the switch to EI. Is this a sign of nutrient deficiency? I have been dosing a solution from the EI sticky for a 20 gallon aquarium at 5ml per dose with a 500ml solution.

Also, I have had great growth with some of my plants such as rotala indica, dwarf hairgrass and HC, but have struggled with plants such as anacharis, cambomba, and italian val. My anacharis and cambomba were growing great but after trimming, growth stagnates and the few stems that continue to grow exhibit small leaves spaced far apart on the new stalk growth.

I have a 25 gallon cube with Marineland 18" plant specific led fixture, pressurized co2 indicating green on a drop checker,and a way over sized cansiter filter.

I am unsure whether my problem is not enough nutrients, co2, and or light?

Livestock
10 neon
10 strawberry rasbora
6 marbled hatchetfish
5 dwarf corydoras
1 oto
6 crs

Parameters have been stable at (api master test kit)

temp 80-81
ph 6.6
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 10

tank has been up and running for 50 days
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 05:04 PM
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So are you dosing npk and micros? Or just micros?

How long is photoperiod?

I am suggestion nutrient deficiencies are your problem. Probably.low macros. Low phosphate.

What's your phosphate?

75 Gallon Low Tech w/ Green Terror Pair
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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i got the ei kit from green leaf aquatics and have been doing the alternating dosing schedule per Barr's instructions. I currently run a 10 hour lighting schedule.
I was going to try and pick up a phosphate test today to check!

Bump:

Bump: here are a few pictures of my problems. Im noticing growth in other plants, but some like the cambomba are not growing like the weeds they use to.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 05:33 PM
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In posts like these, stock lighting, thats where I go

the most helpful way to eliminate it is to ask if there are any links of someone growing lush plants under that exact light...or do people always upgrade from it? one neat thing for sure, if I put my crappy 2o yr old power compact lights that have ran every planted tank Ive ever done, your cabomba would be weedy again, even if you do find a confirming thread. or metal halide 10k, i have never come across a plant that wont grow under it, even without co2 they just change their morphology. im big on light sources, only because powerful ones do a lot for a system where barely getting by/restricted par lighting may be a problem source, just brainstorming. the reason my plants burst ten feet out of my tank and press into my ceiling is from metal halide lighting, not ei ferts or anything else. I have some holes in some leaves too, but mostly its obscured by massive growth. I think under weaker lighting my system would struggle more, its so hands off. buying the best lighting I could afford was the solution to most of my early tank probs/

that internodal distance was always a light thing in my tanks

and/or
also, the original push from using bright light and co2 could have used up a good bit of nutrient stores, now they are being replenished slowly but the holes in the older leaves show the imbalance. id be curious to see what new leaves will show

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Last edited by brandon429; 08-18-2014 at 05:47 PM. Reason: sp
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Here is the light I have on it, http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...m?pcatid=24726

I don't think it's a lack of light issue since I have HC growing well at the bottom 18" or more from the light, but I am really just confused since the so called easy plants are the ones I am having trouble with lol
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 06:00 PM
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Can you post a few more up close pictures of the damaged parts?

Are the damaged leaves on new, old or both new and old leaves?

What substrate is that?
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Seachem black flourite sand with flourish root tabs for the substrate. It appears to be old growth
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 06:06 PM
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More photos will help.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 06:17 PM
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Almost the exact same thing happened to me. Couple months ago I switched from flourish liquids to EI from GLA. Within a week my ludwigia lost its color, began dropping lower leaves, and exhibiting stunted and twisted new growth. The only other two plants affected were ammannia gracilis and mermaid weed. They both did almost the same thing. All my other plants responded well.

I was told by the experts it was lack of co2, so I increased it. Didnt help. Logically it made no sense to me that it was a deficiency in anything, because the response was too dramatic, and it happened too fast.

Through trial and error Ive concluded that it's caused by csmb. I can do a big water change, skip the micros for a few days and things start looking better. Dose micros again and boom, next day things are headed back the other way. Even 1/2 the recommended dose seems to be too much.

In my particular case, I have huge amounts of Osmocote+ root tabs in my substrate, which is inert blasting sand. I suspect that a good portion is leeching into the water column, and the added csmb is causing a toxicity of either iron or some other trace.

It's now been 10 days with no micros and three 60% water changes. Things are finally getting back to normal. Ive continued to dose the full amount of macros the whole time, since none of that is known to have negative effects from overdosing.

I doubt this opinion will be a popular one. Nobody seems to want to hear the words overdose and EI in the same sentence, LOL. Nevertheless it has been my personal experience. I chalk it up to having used way too much Osmocote+ in the months leading up, at least too much to have in combination with EI levels of trace.

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Last edited by burr740; 08-18-2014 at 06:38 PM. Reason: .
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 06:45 PM
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FWIW, temp seems a bit high, too. Most plants (and fish) are happier somewhere in the 70's.
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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so I was thinking, I did a 50% water change before starting the EI dosing, could that have stripped nutrients before the EI could have replaced them?

Bump: I will get some more pics when I get home
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 07:03 PM
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Maybe GH changed after water change. GH booster.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=167575

Last edited by huangboyu; 08-18-2014 at 07:48 PM. Reason: more info
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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so I went and got a kg/gh and phosphate test kit this morning and here are my results:

Aquarium
ph 6.6
kh- 4
gh-7
phosphate 1.0 ppm

water source
ph 8
kh-4
gh-6
phosphate 0 ppm

I took some more pictures showing new growth, a part where the ludwigia stem seems to have degraded and a picture of one of the damaged leaves.

btw, should i attempt to lower my water source ph before a water change and how if so?
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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i have also started slowly increasing my co2 to around 2 bps as of this morning
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-19-2014, 01:46 AM
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is it correct that your ph is 6.6 after you add 8.0 to the tank and are increasing co2? seems to me the ph is low enough whats you guys call

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