Indian Almond Leaves Toxic? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 06:00 AM Thread Starter
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Indian Almond Leaves Toxic?

Last week I added maybe 25 Indian Almond Leaves to my 34 gallon to turn it into a blackwater tank. There were 3 gardneri innidere killies in there already, lots of fry that had just hatched and grew in the tank too. They'd been well for a few months, no issues. Once I added the IAL, the tank water was yellow-brown tinted, lots of tannins to be honest. I liked the look.

Before I left on a short trip I noticed the male and female weren't doing too well. This was immediately after I added the IAL. I came back from my 4 day trip today to find the male gardneri gone and one of the two females gone. The tiny hatchling baby fry are great as well as the big female, so are the larger fry. Might I add the remaining female is very fat and looks especially vibrant and happy now.

I noticed too that immediately after I added the IAL, they swam up and down the sides of the tank like they were trying to get away. I thought they'd adjust, apparently not.

Is it possible the IAL did this? Are they toxic if there's too many? I just added enough to cover the substrate so their fry could hide. (The pH and ammonia didn't change during this time, normal levels for my tank)
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 06:35 AM
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I have no solution but I am very interested in this because you and I are both starting up blackwater tanks.

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 07:32 AM
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Interesting. I would think the fragile fry would be the first to go if in fact it was the IAL's.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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The other thing it could have been was salt -- I was adding salt to the tank to prepare for Nothobranchius which came today. It wasn't a lot of salt, though. It was less than I added to a planted tank with guppies a couple years ago and it was fine. I added 15tsp over the course of 24 hours, and if anything that would have killed the tiny newly hatched fry faster than the adults. The adults seemed to react to the IAL, and didn't act strange when I added salt.

The two large fry and the adult female are swimming around normally. The newly hatched fry are hard ot see but whenever I turn the pumps off I can see a few come out slowly.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 08:39 AM
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I use ground ground banana leaves to covert my tanks to black water set up.

Using the leaves will change your water rapidly and your younger fish. The pH will drop and the water will soften.

The leaves may also have something odd on them which might effect the health.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 12:41 PM
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If anything it could have been a drastic swing in parameters, your ph would drop significantly from that much volume.. a reach could be pesticides or toxins present on/in leaves.. Killis are pretty tough so..
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 04:26 PM
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I'm going to guess that you gave your environment a 1-2 punch that the fish didn't like. A drastic change in PH coupled with the addition of salt probably caused a lot of water movement on a cellular level.

As a rule of thumb, change the direction of the ship a degree at a time. If you plan on adding a bunch of something, add it gradually. So, instead of adding 30 leaves at once, add 10 leaves every three or four days. Once the leaves are in and the fish appear to be happy, gradually add the salt over the course of a week or more. You'll get where you want to be, but your fish will have time to adjust.

It's funny... You may have fish in hard water with a ph of 8.0 when your fish may thrive in soft water with a ph of 6.0. However, if you took them out of the bad environment and dumped them into the good environment without decent acclimation, you could wind up killing them all.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Well I don't think it was pH because it was 6.5 before I added them and 6.0 after I added them... Of course the test kit only goes to 6.0 but I don't think it'd drop to like some crazy low pH.

Also, aren't killies designed to take rapid changes since they jump from one body of water to the next in the wild?

If my Nothobranchius do well, I'll order another pair of Fundulopanchax gardneri in a month. Then if there is any conflict between the males I can move the Nothobranchius to another tank (setting it up now)... I have a feeling a gardneri could take out any notho is a just one bite, and I feel like a male gardneri would get mad because the notho is already trying to mate with the female gardneri.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 04:37 PM
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35 leaves is a lot to add at once for a 34g.

Well that's just like.........your opinion man.


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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
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35 leaves is a lot to add at once for a 34g.

no kidding, I would have started off with just 5 and add more little by little like others have said.


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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 05:44 PM
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I too was thinking it was a lot of leaves.

Banana leaves huh?

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
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I had no idea they would cause such an issue, if it was in fact them. Next time I'll add them more slowly.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 11:40 PM
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Or do a bit more research before you just toss stuff in the tank. It will save ya in the long wrong.


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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-08-2014, 03:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Or do a bit more research before you just toss stuff in the tank. It will save ya in the long wrong.
Sorry, but I really hate it when people tell me this. I do research before I add anything to my tank. I didn't find anything warning about this online. They're leaves. I even posted a few topics about it on here before I got them to add them. If there was something like this on the internet warning about adding them too fast, I would have added them a few at a time.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-08-2014, 03:29 AM
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I always test things out in a 1g or 5g bucket. I want to see what it's going to do to my water before I actually take action. Research isn't just the internet.


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