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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
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Red face New to planted tanks.. Help!

hello!
im new tot he fw world of planted tanks.. so take it easy on me.. im sw geared here and i havent really done much with a fw tank
i want to setup a 20 long planted tank..
it may be filled with:
silver dollar
6-8 cardinal tetras
2 angels
1-2 clown loaches
1-2 sword tails
2 gourami's
2-3 tiger barbs
it seems overstocked but has a 29 gallon footprint's length and for a filter i have penguin 150 biowheel and an extra filter can be added as well
i am used to doing waterchanges every friday for my sw reef tank so i will do them on this tank as well

i plan on using the lighting i have.. i can use either a flourscent, or a power compacts. in this fixture it has 2x 65 watt 50/50 bulbs.

for substrate i am going to use eco complete http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...fm?pcatid=9087

and it will be moderate to heavily planted. and i wont be using a co2 except for a diy one from a soda bottle the whole dry yeast and sugar and water thing (utube it if you are confused i need input on this.. )
i just did it and it has not worked yet... =(
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IZFM9ZpaqGM ). with a air stone on the end?

if i over filter the tank can i add a few extra tetras in there?
what should i do, or not do here?
thanks for your timem it is greatly appreciated!

-bill

Last edited by Bill109; 05-05-2008 at 11:26 PM.
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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 02:31 AM
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2x 65 will be 130w over a 29g aquarium which means approximately 4 wpg. You will need co2 or you will have lots of algae problems. (the diy co2 might be enough) try and get it down to 2 wpg then the co2 would work it's magic alot more.. 50/50 means that you have blue lights on at night right? (don't know much about this) then it would be fine b/c then you'd only have approximately 2 wpg. If you overfilter the tanks yes you would be able to add some more tetras asides from there is a limit for fish even with extra filtering. With your lighting you'd be able to do almost any type of plant you wanted. i'm not that skilled in the plant area so maybe someone else can help you with that. For stocking keep it to this MAYBE:
silver dollar
6-8 cardinal tetras
2 Angel
1-2 Cories/Loache (clown loaches can grow WAY to big)
1-2 sword tails
1 gourami's (get to aggressive)
2-3 tiger barbs

I'm not a expert so don't take everything word for word.

Thanks
Jonathan/SeaSerpant


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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
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2x 65 will be 130w over a 29g aquarium which means approximately 4 wpg. You will need co2 or you will have lots of algae problems. (the diy co2 might be enough) try and get it down to 2 wpg then the co2 would work it's magic alot more.. 50/50 means that you have blue lights on at night right? (don't know much about this) then it would be fine b/c then you'd only have approximately 2 wpg. If you overfilter the tanks yes you would be able to add some more tetras asides from there is a limit for fish even with extra filtering. With your lighting you'd be able to do almost any type of plant you wanted. i'm not that skilled in the plant area so maybe someone else can help you with that.
its a 20 long. not a 29. the 50/50 means tht half of it is actinic and half is daylight. i want to 10k. it has 2 switches so i can have 65 on at a time.. or 130.
it will come out to 6.5 watts per gallon witht he 130. and 3.25 with just the 65
it is based on lumens though.. not so much watts.

with less light the co2 will work betteR?
thanks again

-bill
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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 02:40 AM
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Oops i misread it. it has the footprint of the 29g. With the homemade co2 and 3.25 wpg it would be fine. less light as in the co2 will do more work on the algae (the algae will die faster than it grows) the fish list would be the same as i posted b/c i caught my mistake by then.

Thanks
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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 03:03 AM Thread Starter
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Oops i misread it. it has the footprint of the 29g. With the homemade co2 and 3.25 wpg it would be fine. less light as in the co2 will do more work on the algae (the algae will die faster than it grows) the fish list would be the same as i posted b/c i caught my mistake by then.
ok thanks
can i over dose the tank with too much co2 if there are alot of plants in there?
i have a bubble wand under some rocks.. when it bubbles it produces o2 right?
and the diy will produce Co2 for the plants..? and they will use it b4 i can overdose it? or is it really hard to O.D. It?

thanks

-bill
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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
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should i just use the standard flourscent lighting that a tank come with instead of my power compacts?
i have both just a matter of what to use and lighting hours.. what do you think?

thanks... have a great night.
-bill
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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 03:23 AM
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It's not really efficient to dose both O2 and CO2 simultaneously; you can definitely overdose a tank with too much CO2 if you have fish; the best (and easiest) way to monitor CO2 levels is to get a drop checker http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co...-checkers.html...

As for your O2, it might be wise, since your using DIY CO2 and can't shut it off at night, to supplement with 02 at night when the plants aren't producing it for your fish...the easiest way to do this is to put your airstone on a timer that comes on after your lights go off; this way, as your plants begin to utilize the O2 in the water and CO2 levels rise as a result, you'll be able to keep your fish happy (and alive)!!

PC's are fine, and most likely better than the fixture that came with your tank...what kind of fixture (how many bulbs, what type [ie T5, T8...] watts, etc) came with it?

Your photoperiod will be determined by using answers from the above questions...

by the way...get rid of the actinics...1x65w should be plenty of light over a tank that size!!
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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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It's not really efficient to dose both O2 and CO2 simultaneously; you can definitely overdose a tank with too much CO2 if you have fish; the best (and easiest) way to monitor CO2 levels is to get a drop checker http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co...-checkers.html...

As for your O2, it might be wise, since your using DIY CO2 and can't shut it off at night, to supplement with 02 at night when the plants aren't producing it for your fish...the easiest way to do this is to put your airstone on a timer that comes on after your lights go off; this way, as your plants begin to utilize the O2 in the water and CO2 levels rise as a result, you'll be able to keep your fish happy (and alive)!!

PC's are fine, and most likely better than the fixture that came with your tank...what kind of fixture (how many bulbs, what type [ie T5, T8...] watts, etc) came with it?

Your photoperiod will be determined by using answers from the above questions...

by the way...get rid of the actinics...1x65w should be plenty of light over a tank that size!!
it is a 50/50 bulb.. i t is a 2 in one bulb.. so i cant get rid of it..
is there a bulb i can buy for a regular strip flourscent fixture? i will just change the bulb.

the o2 (oxygen) will be made by a bubble wand i assume? thats what i meant by putting the o2 in..
so just run the o2 at night (if the bubble wand is indeed producing oxygen)
and run the diy co2 all day?

i will be using the eco complete as i mentioned which has a bunch of stuff to fetilize the plants i am open to ides here. im not trying to go abut using what i have and only tht, as long as im not spending a lot of money ill go out and get the needed i have seen people have a tank without a co2 injection kit.. so i wasnt planning on using one..

i just need some help pretty much..
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 07:36 PM
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Oh...i totally misunderstood...sorry, my bad...like a dual daylight bulb or whatever. I thought you meant...well you know...

As for the O2/Co2, you seem like you're on the right path: O2 on at night, CO2 all day.

About dosing ferts: Liquid fertilizers are available from a number of sources, though dry fertilizers will save you some $$ if you have multiple/large tanks. REad up on some different dosing strategies; Estimative Index is probably the most popular, but other methods do exist. HEre are some link for EI dosing methods.

http://www.aquascapingworld.com/maga...on-Method.html

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/wa...-regimes_.html
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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Oh...i totally misunderstood...sorry, my bad...like a dual daylight bulb or whatever. I thought you meant...well you know...

As for the O2/Co2, you seem like you're on the right path: O2 on at night, CO2 all day.

About dosing ferts: Liquid fertilizers are available from a number of sources, though dry fertilizers will save you some $$ if you have multiple/large tanks. REad up on some different dosing strategies; Estimative Index is probably the most popular, but other methods do exist. HEre are some link for EI dosing methods.

http://www.aquascapingworld.com/maga...on-Method.html

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/wa...-regimes_.html
ok i have been looking at co2 systems.. its not as bas as i thought.. money wise. they are confusing though..
okay say i buy a 5 lb tank.. a regulator and a diffuser.. is tht enough? or am i missing something? i can get all tht for about 220.. unless someone can sugest something differnt?
i saw a whole new thing.. it was a little system by red sea i think and it was 40$ and u needed replacement crtridges for about 6 every month and after a while it will add up.

could you just use a regualtor and 5 lb tank? do u Need* a diffuser? the way they show it looks confusing. it says in or out of the tank. i have also seen planted tanks with the diy co2.. wow this is confusing
i have problems with algea so i added a bubble wand but tht suplies o2.. which will make the co2 ineffective.. how do i balance out o2/co2 and maintain a clean substrate?

like i mentioned, could i do a planted tank with a diy co2 or maybe 2 of them.. and use tht eco complete stuff i linked above to a site and get some addititves?
so ill have 2 ways of adding additive/nutrients and a small supply of c02. its a small tank so..
now back to the same old Q... hod do i keep the substrate clean if i use the one above without co2 injection? i use rocks in my tank and they get filled with stuff and when u move them it all stirrrs..

so sorry for the long confusing post... i appreciate anybody who takes the time and reads it and leaves some feed backk. wheather it says im a noob or a sugggestion lol

-bill
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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 08:41 PM
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You don't necessarily need a diffuser, but you do need a method of getting the CO2 dissolved in the tank - some use diffusers, some use DIY reactors plumbed "in-line" like this one http://www.rexgrigg.com/diy-reactor.htm...Cheap and very effective. If you go the pressurized route, you will need a tank, a regulator, and a reactor/diffuser. The tank obviously holds the gas, the regulator allows you to control the gas flow, and the diffuser/reactor diffuses it into the tank. So, you do need all 3 devices (and a check valve to prevent water backing up into your regulator).

AS for keeping your gravel clean, well, I'm not quite sure I understand how O2/CO2 will affect the cleanliness of your substrate, but Imay be missing your question. Can you extrapolate?
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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 08:59 PM
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Just a thought on your stocking-


The Tiger Barbs may prey on your Angels and the Cardinal Tetras might also be bothered by them. Angels also prefer taller tanks to longer one due to their fin hight but you could do one in this tank.

If i were you i would take out the Tigers and the Silver dollar. The Silver dollar i've heard will eat your plants and they can be aggressive buggers. Tiger Barbs should definitely be kept in groups of at least 6, and if you have them in a tank you almost need to build the stock list around them. They can really wreak havoc on other inhabitants, they're rambunctious and can get very nippy with long finned fish (like the Angels and sword fish). They'll most likely stress out the angel b/c they're very quick moving fish.

Some gouramis can get mean. Peral gouramis are very pretty and relatively mild.

If you want the Tiger Barbs i'd go with 6 of them, a few cories (or ottos, they'll be better for algae) and maybe some cherry barbs-you could try the cardinals it may or may not work.

If you want the Angel i would go with that, the sword tails, cories/ottos, cardinals, and the pearl gourami.


Just some suggestions
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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 10:41 PM
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this tank is bad bad bad
research what your fish need

under stock
over filter
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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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this tank is bad bad bad
research what your fish need
i haven not said it was the final list.. tht list is a generization as to what i have liked so far..
i have researched and i doesn't say. this kind of fish will not work to well with this fish.. or this fish like tank tht are taller and what not. all it says is .. their temprement, water conditions, and food/diet concerns..
i didnt think i would have to be such involved with fw compatibilities as much as my reef, but apparently i do
thanks for the comment tho..
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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-05-2008, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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You don't necessarily need a diffuser, but you do need a method of getting the CO2 dissolved in the tank - some use diffusers, some use DIY reactors plumbed "in-line" like this one http://www.rexgrigg.com/diy-reactor.htm...Cheap and very effective. If you go the pressurized route, you will need a tank, a regulator, and a reactor/diffuser. The tank obviously holds the gas, the regulator allows you to control the gas flow, and the diffuser/reactor diffuses it into the tank. So, you do need all 3 devices (and a check valve to prevent water backing up into your regulator).

AS for keeping your gravel clean, well, I'm not quite sure I understand how O2/CO2 will affect the cleanliness of your substrate, but Imay be missing your question. Can you extrapolate?
when i used a bubble wand under my sand it kept the bubbles moving through the gravel.. thts the whole thing with this.. and tht supplies the o2, i tried using a PH and it was to powerful and blew everything around.. so im in search of a way of water movement i suppose?
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