Can Fish OD on Iron? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Can Fish OD on Iron?

HELP!!! We've lost 10 fish in 8 days! 2 Runny nose tetra, 2 cardinal tetra, 1 platinum angelfish & 5 German blue rams.

No red gills, no sores on body, no flukes, clear eyes, fish eating fine and active. Examined last dead fish and if it weren't for the fact that he was dead, he looked great!

90g heavily planted, 2 fluval filters (internal & external), UV filter running 24/7, water parameters great before and after 50% water change, CO2 below 30.

Prior to beginning of deaths, I was dosing extra iron as Blyxa was melting.

Other new changes were Seachem Cichlid vitamins in water column and ZOE mixed in food. After the deaths started, stopped extras but fish continued to die.

Took charcoal out of filter after water change last Friday & replace with bio media.

Any and all thoughts greatly appreciated as we haven't got a clue as to what's going on.

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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 01:20 PM
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Sorry to hear about the deaths.

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Originally Posted by Tabatha View Post
Took charcoal out of filter after water change last Friday & replace with bio media.
No ammonia and no nitrites (your test kits are good/tested)? Far more likely cause of death, considering their toxicity and the recent removal of nitrifying bacteria (charcoal).
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 01:21 PM
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how much iron are we talking about?


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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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how much iron are we talking about?
9mls 2 - 3 x week + macros + micros. (90g tank)

Parameters before and after wc were fine, have never had problems. PH consistently 7.5, using 2 different test kits.

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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 07:21 PM
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No temperature changes during this time period? Any water used to top off the tank was the same temp as the tank? Water is treated outside the tank to remove the chlorine/chloramines/heavy metals?

What is ZOE?

I'd put some chemical media back in your filter- AC or Purigen or both- cuz this does sound like a water quality issue of some sort... maybe you had a random change in your tapwater; some water companies do "spring cleanings" and will occasionally add things to the water temporarily that are not normally there- have you contacted your water company?





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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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No temperature changes during this time period?
We raised the temp from 74 to 78 over the course of 2 days.

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Any water used to top off the tank
No.

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Originally Posted by lauraleellbp
was the same temp as the tank? Water is treated outside the tank to remove the chlorine/chloramines/heavy metals?
Because it's a 90 gallon tank & we use a python to drain/fill, we use Seachem Prime and dose for 90g as we fill the tank. Temperature is carefully tested & within 1 or 2 degrees of tank.

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What is ZOE?
Vitamin supplement you mix with food by Kent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lauraleellbp
I'd put some chemical media back in your filter- AC or Purigen or both- cuz this does sound like a water quality issue of some sort... maybe you had a random change in your tapwater; some water companies do "spring cleanings" and will occasionally add things to the water temporarily that are not normally there- have you contacted your water company?
As mentioned earlier, I tested before and after the 50% water change, there wasn't anything out of whack, it's spooky!

Not sure if I mentioned but we run a UV sterilizer 24/7.

Shrimp are unaffected! (RCS, Amanos, Green)

Thank you for your help!
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
We raised the temp from 74 to 78 over the course of 2 days.
Could the thermometer be off and the temp is higher than you think?

M a r k
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Doubtful, we have two thermometers. Also, we have an external, inline heater.
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 07:37 PM
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Why were you raising the water temp?

You know- I know that Seachem says it's safe to dose the tank with Prime and then add untreated water- but I've come across at least a half dozen people who've experienced die-offs like this right after a PWC, and many of them never could track down any other cause... might just be coincidence, but I'll personally never add untreated water to my tanks...

I'm thinking that adding some chemical media might help remove something that isn't showing up in the standard tests, in case the water company is mixing something new in the water... It couldn't hurt, at any rate.

You haven't done any replanting or anything recently have you? No chance that you could have stirred up any hydrogen sulfide pockets?





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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Why were you raising the water temp?
For the Rams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lauraleellbp
You know- I know that Seachem says it's safe to dose the tank with Prime and then add untreated water- but I've come across at least a half dozen people who've experienced die-offs like this right after a PWC, and many of them never could track down any other cause... might just be coincidence, but I'll personally never add untreated water to my tanks...
I could blame it on the Prime *IF* fish hadn't started dying before the water change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lauraleellbp
I'm thinking that adding some chemical media might help remove something that isn't showing up in the standard tests, in case the water company is mixing something new in the water... It couldn't hurt, at any rate.
Such as???

Quote:
Originally Posted by lauraleellbp
You haven't done any replanting or anything recently have you? No chance that you could have stirred up any hydrogen sulfide pockets?
I suppose that could be a possibility but the tank is only 3 & 1/2 months old. We received a plant from a friend the weekend before (3/16/08), the first fish died 3/20/08. 1 - 2 fish die almost daily including yesterday; 4 tetra, 5 rams & 1 angelfish. The tetra have been in the tank for 2 months, the rams and angelfish were relatively new.

Edit: Carbon was removed 3/21/08 AFTER fish started dying.
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 07:52 PM
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You'd have to contact your water company to see if they've made any changes in their treatment- I just know that it's the time of year that many companies do maintenance, flush out their systems, etc. IMO adding some new chemical media just wouldn't hurt at this point, in the absence of any other clear cause ATM...

If you lose fish again today then I'd consider a broad spectrum non-invasive dosing product; my favorite is 1/2 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon, or Metafix or Pimafix... just in case of an internal parasite of some sort introduced with the new fish.

Do all the remaining fish seem to be behaving normally? Swimming and interacting with each other as usual?





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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:21 PM
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Do you live in Toronto?

The reason I ask is because we do, and I've experienced a load of tetra deaths in the last week or so with no obvious change in what I'm doing as far as tank maintenance. Parameters come up normal when tested.

I'd blamed it on neon tetra disease at first because we lost a few to that a couple of weeks ago, but then a flying fox and a gourami also died.

I'm wondering if this is a city water issue and not necesarily something we're doing wrong.
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:28 PM
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If you lose fish again today then I'd consider a broad spectrum non-invasive dosing product; my favorite is 1/2 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon, or Metafix or Pimafix... just in case of an internal parasite of some sort introduced with the new fish.
Sorry, I don't mean to hijack, but I was curious if Mela/Pima + your recommended salt dosage is safe for my plants. I assume so if you're recommending it. I want to make sure my dwarf puffers and otocinclus are healthy because the DPers look like they might have ick. Thanks.
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:48 PM
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IMO some plant loss is acceptable when treating sick fish; I personally prioritize fish over plants. That being said, the salt dose I'm recommending is very low (many ppl dose up to 1 tbsp per gallon in fish-only tanks) and you're only keeping the salt in there for a week or two in most cases. Salt is one of the easiest things to remove from a tank- just do some PWC and you're done. Commercial meds often stain and seep into the tank's silicone seams, etc.

Salt is OK to use with Melafix and Pimafix. Both are natural tree oils. I wouldn't dose salt with otos, however.





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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 10:12 PM
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How did the fish died? Were they crooked (rigor mortis) with gills flared?
That's usually a sign of a great shock.

Yeah, call up your city's water company... I lived by Lake Michigan and would here on the news sometimes about bacterial contamination.


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