willing to let the fish die if they help temporarily - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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willing to let the fish die if they help temporarily

Hi guys,

I'm just starting out in this hobby and I've read a bunch of stuff in the newbie are but I'm wondering about any potential benefits by having some fish like minnows "serve their time" and then die at which time I remove them.

this may sound cruel, but the main reason I want to grow aquatic plants is to occasionally feed them to the turtle. so I see no reason not to let some fish swim around and poop until they die and then feed them to the turtle.

So the question becomes, are there any benefits (like cycling or water chemistry or something) to having a small fish or two in the tank temporaily until they die?

Thanks!

Todd
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 04:29 PM
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If your going to feed them to your turtle, I would let them live in your tank, poop for a day or two, and feed them to your turtle.
Get a few more, have them poop another day or two, feed them to your turtle, ad nauseum.
This way, they won't be suffering a slow, painful death.
Just my opinion.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Great Mark,

So keeping the fish in the plant tank and spreading about their poop will help the aquatic plants because it's a "type of fertilizer"

Will leaving the dead fish in there for a couple of days mess up the chemistry or will it provide some kind of fertilizer too?
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markp80nj View Post
If your going to feed them to your turtle, I would let them live in your tank, poop for a day or two, and feed them to your turtle.
Get a few more, have them poop another day or two, feed them to your turtle, ad nauseum.
This way, they won't be suffering a slow, painful death.
Just my opinion.

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If I'm reading the OP correctly, they said they feeding the aquatic plants to the turtle not the fish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjurhs View Post
Hi guys,

I'm just starting out in this hobby and I've read a bunch of stuff in the newbie are but I'm wondering about any potential benefits by having some fish like minnows "serve their time" and then die at which time I remove them.

this may sound cruel, but the main reason I want to grow aquatic plants is to occasionally feed them to the turtle. so I see no reason not to let some fish swim around and poop until they die and then feed them to the turtle.

So the question becomes, are there any benefits (like cycling or water chemistry or something) to having a small fish or two in the tank temporaily until they die?

Thanks!

Todd
It basically sounds like you are planning to starve fish (until they die) in your planted tank, in which you are growing plants to feed your turtle and then you will also feed the fish to your turtle? -Very confusing post.

In either case I don't think you will find anyone here on this forum that is "okay" with what you are proposing here. Fish can and will live quite a while a while without food and it is just sick and wrong to starve them out. You may as well not have fish as if you want them to "poop" you will need to feed them.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 05:06 PM
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fish poop will fertilize and assist with the bacterial filtration.

leaving a dead fish in there will most likely overload the tanks filtration and cause algae. if you had something like snails or shrimp in there, a dead fish could be eaten fast enough not to crash the tank.


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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TekWarren View Post
Fish can and will live quite a while a while without food and it is just sick and wrong to starve them out. You may as well not have fish as if you want them to "poop" you will need to feed them.
^^This

A better (non-cruel...) method would be to get something like guppies or platies or something to breed in there, then take some out as turtle food every so often. Also has the benefit of maintaining a healthy population to feed the turtles, not a diseased feeder fish from the LFS.

Why would you want to watch a fish starve?
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjurhs View Post
Hi guys,

I'm just starting out in this hobby and I've read a bunch of stuff in the newbie are but I'm wondering about any potential benefits by having some fish like minnows "serve their time" and then die at which time I remove them.

this may sound cruel, but the main reason I want to grow aquatic plants is to occasionally feed them to the turtle. so I see no reason not to let some fish swim around and poop until they die and then feed them to the turtle.

So the question becomes, are there any benefits (like cycling or water chemistry or something) to having a small fish or two in the tank temporaily until they die?

Thanks!

Todd
If you're going to feed the fish to your turtle, then I don't see a problem with having them in your planted tank until they are ready to become turtle food. If you're not feeding the fish to your turtle, then don't even bother keeping fish in there. There are better ways to fertilize your plants, and if you're not going to feed them anyway, they aren't going to poop much to begin with.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPSLOK View Post
^^This

A better (non-cruel...) method would be to get something like guppies or platies or something to breed in there, then take some out as turtle food every so often. Also has the benefit of maintaining a healthy population to feed the turtles, not a diseased feeder fish from the LFS.

Why would you want to watch a fish starve?

Agreed

It's cruelty for no reason. Fertilize your plants for growth, keep healthy fish in the tank for poop and nitrates for the plants. Use a nutrient rich substrate as well. Why not just feed your turtle a protein rich pellet occasionally on top of your plants? Your risking disease from pet store fish anyway as a food source.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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sorry guys, I didn't mean to kick anyone in the shins, I can see where my inital post may have been confusing

I would plan on feeding the fish (probably minnows or guppies), as been pointed out, without food the fish won't make "fertilizer" but sooner or later the fish will die, I won't be starving them to an early death so I was wondering if I could feed that to the turlte, sounds like that's not a good idea.

somebody mentioned that there are other ways of fertilizing the tank. Can somebody point me to an easy solution, something that you just shake over it or put a few drops in? Obviously I know nothing about aquatic plants and am reading (read the beginners page herein) and learning as I go, but the learning curve seems mights steep!!!

right now I have a 10g tank, pebble rock as a "substrate" (I think that's what it's called in the aquatic plant world), a 5500K CFL and a 6500K CFL bulbs. I also have a water tank heater that keeps the water around 75-78. and later today I will buying an Aquaclear filter. I don't want to get too deep (joke) in the aquatic plant world, nothing like CO2 setups or that. Just something that I can feed my turtle.

The plants I currently have are:

Anubias
FrogBit
Amazon Sword
and I plan to get some Anacharis

thanks for whater help you guys are able to supply!

Todd

Last edited by tjurhs; 03-31-2014 at 05:45 PM. Reason: added information
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 05:42 PM
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Fish are very hard to catch in a planted tank

125g,75g,50g,40g,27g,10g
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 05:55 PM
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You don't need fish to grow plants. Lots of people grow plants with just snails or shrimp ... for fun and/or to keep algae down, which is nice. You don't even need the snails or shrimp. If you want to add ammonia as a food source for the plant, toss in some fish flakes occasionally. Or better yet, just use plant fertilizer. Something simple like Seachem Flourish in a low light set-up will be fine. Or use Fluorish with Excel to feed the plants and control algae.

Deborah
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tjurhs View Post
sorry guys, I didn't mean to kick anyone in the shins, I can see where my inital post may have been confusing

I would plan on feeding the fish (probably minnows or guppies), as been pointed out, without food the fish won't make "fertilizer" but sooner or later the fish will die, I won't be starving them to an early death so I was wondering if I could feed that to the turlte, sounds like that's not a good idea.

somebody mentioned that there are other ways of fertilizing the tank. Can somebody point me to an easy solution, something that you just shake over it or put a few drops in? Obviously I know nothing about aquatic plants and am reading (read the beginners page herein) and learning as I go, but the learning curve seems mights steep!!!

right now I have a 10g tank, pebble rock as a "substrate" (I think that's what it's called in the aquatic plant world), a 5500K CFL and a 6500K CFL bulbs. I also have a water tank heater that keeps the water around 75-78. and later today I will buying an Aquaclear filter. I don't want to get too deep (joke) in the aquatic plant world, nothing like CO2 setups or that. Just something that I can feed my turtle.

The plants I currently have are:

Anubias
FrogBit
Amazon Sword
and I plan to get some Anacharis

thanks for whater help you guys are able to supply!

Todd
Anubias grows very slowly, so it's not something you're going to want to feed your turtle unless you plan on being new specimens every so often or pluck individual leaves off to feed to your turtle. However, new leaves will grow back very slowly. Amazon swords can grow fairly quickly under the right conditions, but once again, we're talking about ripping off individual leaves for your turtle to eat.

The frogbit and anacharis are better candidates for what you have in mind. Once your frogbit multiplies, it will easily take over the surface of your water. You can probably sustain your turtle on just frogbit if the turtle will take to eating it. Anacharis will grow quickly too. You can leave it floating and just let new stems grow from the existing stems. I don't think the anacharis can keep up with the growth of the frogbit, but it'll grow fast enough that you can feed it regularly to your turtle.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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thanks guys!

yea on the Anubias (which I bought at PetSmart) and Amazon or Gigante Sword (at least that's what I think it is, I pulled it from a water/grass drainge way) I would feed him just one plant leaf at a time. I give him lots of other foods too, I just thought a little aquatic plant he would like.

I think it's FrogBit (that I pulled out of our local lake/swampy area) has a loooong root, yes?

Where can I buy Seachem Flourish or Fluorish with Excel?
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 06:28 PM
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Oh- you meant feed them to the turtles after they die of old age or natural causes? Yeah, you could do that, although I'm not sure feeding potentially rotting fish to a turtle is a great plan.


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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tjurhs View Post
thanks guys!

yea on the Anubias (which I bought at PetSmart) and Amazon or Gigante Sword (at least that's what I think it is, I pulled it from a water/grass drainge way) I would feed him just one plant leaf at a time. I give him lots of other foods too, I just thought a little aquatic plant he would like.

I think it's FrogBit (that I pulled out of our local lake/swampy area) has a loooong root, yes?

Where can I buy Seachem Flourish or Fluorish with Excel?
I still think you'd be better off leaving the anubias alone. Generally speaking, they grow a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. The sword should grow nice big leaves, which your turtle will probably enjoy, and the plant should be able to create new leaves provided you feed it with root tabs.

As for frogbit, they look like mini lilly pad and can definitely produce long roots. You can be Flourish or Excel at your local Petsmart/Petco and find them easily online on sites like Amazon.
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