Still confused about EI - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
 
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Still confused about EI

When talking about target ranges, does that mean target for the whole week or each time ferts are added (3X)? I'm still trying to figure out by how many PPM I need to increase each nutrient per dose. I already have the calculator showing how much of each dry fert needs to be added to increase PPM to a certain level. It's the frequency of dosing I don't get. For example, target range for K is 10-30 ppm. So do I add 30 ppm or 10 ppm each time I dose (3 X a wk)?
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 02:49 AM
 
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The target is how much you want in you tank at any given time. You should have your target range right after ou dose each time.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 02:52 AM
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Target ranges aren't used in EI, at least not in the sense they're used when talking about other methods.

Seriously, following the "dosing regime" guide is a great way to do it, you don't need to really think about it, that's one of the beautiful things about EI -- simplicity, no test kits, no maintaining some target.
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 02:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by neilfishguy View Post
The target is how much you want in you tank at any given time. You should have your target range right after ou dose each time.
Oh good! I've been very frustrated trying to get it straight. So, for example, if I am aiming for a target of 30 PPM (the higher end), I would add 30 PPM 3Xper week instead of adding 10 PPM 3Xper week. Is this correct?
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 02:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Target ranges aren't used in EI, at least not in the sense they're used when talking about other methods.

Seriously, following the "dosing regime" guide is a great way to do it, you don't need to really think about it, that's one the of the beautiful things about EI -- simplicity, no test kits, no maintaining some target.
I was talking about following the dosing regime. I was just confused about how to do so.
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 02:54 AM
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No, because you would need to know the uptake of nutrients to maintain that target. You're confusing the test like crazy method of PPS-Classic and EI, they are not really compatible in that sense.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 02:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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No, because you would need to know the uptake of nutrients to maintain that target. You're confusing the test like crazy method of PPS-Classic and EI, they are not really compatible in that sense.
I was trying to follow these:


Tom Barr lists target ranges here-

http://www.barrreport.com/estimative...chy-folks.html

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=36131

I'm not aiming to monitor it. I just want to get a set correct dosing schedule by using the fertilator or Chuck's calculator. I want to fine tune it a bit to my tank's specific conditions and exact size (not 60-80, but 75). Then I'll just add it and forget it. But I want to get it right first.
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loachlady5 View Post
I was talking about following the dosing regime. I was just confused about how to do so.
It's really straight forward. You add the amount recommended on the list 3X per week. If you're not dosing dry, then follow EI liquid as listed here.

If this is all still because you want to use your Seachem stuff, then you will need to add amounts to equal what you'd be adding dry. So, you pop for example .75 tsp of KNO3 into Fertilator and it tells me for my 75 gallon that the .75 tsp of KNO3 would give me 8.442 ppm. Thus, dose enough of your Seachem stuff according to the label instructions so that you're adding ~8.4ppm. You add enough of the Seachem Nitrogen to equal 8.4ppm 3X per week.

Don't tinker until you understand why you're doing it, you'll just crash your brain otherwise. EI is the simple method, for the love of all that is green and pearling, just let it be simple.

Following the 60-80 gallon guideline is perfect, because your 75 is in the 60-80 gallon range. That level is perfect for a 75 gallon, I say this because that's what I have, that is what I use.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 03:08 AM Thread Starter
 
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It's really straight forward. You add the amount recommended on the list 3X per week. If you're not dosing dry, then follow EI liquid as listed here.

If this is all still because you want to use your Seachem stuff, then you will need to add amounts to equal what you'd be adding dry. So, you pop for example .75 tsp of KNO3 into Fertilator and it tells me for my 75 gallon that the .75 tsp of KNO3 would give me 8.442 ppm. Thus, dose enough of your Seachem stuff according to the label instructions so that you're adding ~8.4ppm. You add enough of the Seachem Nitrogen to equal 8.4ppm 3X per week.
No, it's not the Seachem thing still. I'm trying to fine tune EI levels a bit to fit my specific tank size and fish load. B/c of this, I need to understand whether target range means per dose (to keep it at say 30 ppm all week) or whether it means target for the end of the week (having it at say 30ppm by the end of the week b/f the water change). The latter would entail only adding 10ppm each time I put ferts in, while the first would mean adding 30 ppm each time I put ferts in. I know that it will be impossible to know for sure b/d of plant uptake, but I can still get a rough idea.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 03:09 AM
 
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Oh good! I've been very frustrated trying to get it straight. So, for example, if I am aiming for a target of 30 PPM (the higher end), I would add 30 PPM 3Xper week instead of adding 10 PPM 3Xper week. Is this correct?
If you are going to do it like this (testing for a specific ppm)

Lets say you need to add nutrient afexablah. If you allready have 8 ppm afexblah and you want 30, then add enough to raise afexblah 22 ppm. Because 8 plus 22 equals 30.
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 03:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by loachlady5 View Post
Oh good! I've been very frustrated trying to get it straight. So, for example, if I am aiming for a target of 30 PPM (the higher end), I would add 30 PPM 3Xper week instead of adding 10 PPM 3Xper week. Is this correct?
Yeah, thats correct asuming you have 0 ppm now
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 03:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by neilfishguy View Post
If you are going to do it like this (testing for a specific ppm)

Lets say you need to add nutrient afexablah. If you allready have 8 ppm afexblah and you want 30, then add enough to raise afexblah 22 ppm. Because 8 plus 22 equals 30.
Ok - still confused. I don't want to test, but I can see why you both would think that's my goal. I don't think I'm expressing myself very well. I just want to figure it out to set up my dosing regimen. When you say, add enough to raise it 22 ppm, do you mean add 22ppm 3X per week or add 1/3 of that 3X per week?
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 03:15 AM
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I really suggest ignoring that section that says the "target" range. It's really tripping you up, it's really only a reference. At any given point you should have test readings that fall somewhere along those lines, and as you see they're ranges. You're not maintaining that target so much as it is a reference point.

You don't need to fine tune until you know that you need to, really, trust me on this. Don't start trying to fine tune until you know why, and just because the dosing guide is set for 60-80 isn't a reason, really.

In reference to KNO3:

The 3X daily dose will add 8ish ppm each dose, so yes by the end of the week you're near 30. If you want to consider that your target, then go for it.

DO NOT add 30ppm 3X each week, you'll be adding 90ppm over the course of the week and that's just way too much. Don't tinker, follow the recommendations, they work. With the recommendations you're adding ~30ppm each week.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, thats correct asuming you have 0 ppm now
Ok. Just read this after typing my response below - that's what happens when I take too long typing. Aren't we supposed to assume 0 ppm with the EI method to simplify it and avoid test kits? Granted, I'm not simplifying it right now, but once I set my amounts it will be simple.
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 03:17 AM
 
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I mean enough to raise it to 30 pmm 3x a week. Does that make sense? Like if you dose, then 10 minutes later after it is circulated you should have 30 ppm. Then the next day you should dose, add enought to get it to 30 ppm again. Then again the 3rd time.


This does not mean add 22 ppm every other day! Maybe for you it will only be 5 or 8 or 10, whatever. I wouldnt even test. Just dump in how much it says from that guide. And if you get alot of algea problems then maybe test and we can help you figure out your problem.
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