Staurogyne Repens Melting Strangely, Possible Disease or Fungus? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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Staurogyne Repens Melting Strangely, Possible Disease or Fungus?

A patch of my staurogyne repens is melting and I'm not sure what to make of it. The leaves will develop brown spots, then within a few days, all of the color drains out of the plant. The leaves remain attached, but the plant is completely brown.







It's only happening to a small patch. The rest of my plants seem fine:


At first, I thought this might be some kind of diease spreading from plant to plant, so I pulled out all of the "infected" stems and tossed them out. However, the melting developed in a different spot the next day. It's still localized, but now at the opposite end of my plants.

The tank is still new. I did a one month dry start with the s. repens and HC. Both seemed to have handled the transition well. The tank had been flooded for a little over a week when this melting began.

Has anyone seen this before?

Here is some background information:

The tank is a 12 gallon long and I have a 36 inch Current Satellite LED fixture. Photoperiod is 6 hours. I'm injecting CO2 and have kept the drop checker yellow. I am also dosing 1.2 mL of excel daily. As far as fertilizers go, I have been following the EI dosing for 10-20 gallon aquariums using dry ferts. The substrate is amazonia powder. The water is kept at 81 degrees. The tank is still cycling. Yesterday I was reading 0.25 ppm amonia and 1 ppm nitrites.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 08:15 AM
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Could the affected plants be converting from dry start to submerged? It would make sense if they all were showing signs, but just a patch, I wouldn't know what to think. From what I've read about dry starts, heavy Co2 helps in the conversion as they are used to a high concentration.

I just picked up a nice sized batch of this from my LFS, so I'm interested as to how this turns out for you.
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 04:38 PM
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The plants are converting to submersed form. Some will make it, some won't. Increase the odds by injecting as much co2 as possible.

This melt is what happened to me with s. repens, albeit it wasn't as bad.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 05:04 PM
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There is another topic where some of us are discussing this very "phenomenon". I've had mine for months with lots of new growth then all sudden small brown spots and mass melting. Same for several others in that discussion. Not sure what it is but others report it will bounce back if the root systems have established. Mine has melted a bunch but it has slowed way down, stems are still standing, new growth is occurring. -These cases do NOT seem be the result of "converting".
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TekWarren View Post
There is another topic where some of us are discussing this very "phenomenon". I've had mine for months with lots of new growth then all sudden small brown spots and mass melting. Same for several others in that discussion. Not sure what it is but others report it will bounce back if the root systems have established. Mine has melted a bunch but it has slowed way down, stems are still standing, new growth is occurring. -These cases do NOT seem be the result of "converting".
+1 agree...my repens in my 55g is doing this
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 05:17 PM
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If all ferts are correct, and CO2 is good, it almost looks like the plant is send a chemical message to it's leaves to reabsorb energy into it's root and stem system. Perhaps the plant thinks bad tidings are ahead. This could be for whatever reason.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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I was thinking that it was something other than the emersed to submerged transition because it is so localized. Wouldn't all of the plants exhibit these symptoms if the transition to submerged form is causing them? The rest of the plants are doing very well, most of them are pearling.

Since there is no livestock in the tank, I have had the CO2 very high. The CO2 comes on two hours before the lights. I'm using an Ista Max Mix inline reactor, so dissolution is very good. There aren't any bubbles in the tank. I keep the drop checker bottomed out throughout the entire photoperiod. Combined with the excel, there should be plenty of carbon available.

The idea of a chemical message makes sense ituitively, it would explain why the browning occurs in patches.

Since pulling out the brown plants didn't seem to stop the melting, I think I will leave them in and see if they recover.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 08:11 PM
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I've got another theory but only have my tank as a data point and two competing variables. I stirred up my substrate recently (a lot) moving plants around and removing river pebbles and I believe this kicked up some ammonia. I thought this would happen anyways so I did 70+% water changes each time I did so. Maybe these plants are more sensitive to this....I noticed my L. Aromatica also did the same thing at the same time.

So, looking at you pic it looks like a bunch of your HC is missing (or maybe just has not grown in) right in front of the suffering plants. Did you by chance recently thin out the HC in that bare spot or disturb the substrate there ?

My other variable is lack of nutrients in the substrate but looks like you have aqua soil so that shouldn't really be the issue here. My substrate is inert and once I added more osmocote + capsules a couple weeks ago my s. repens have already began to bounce back ! I went a little more than 3 months before adding back more capsules.

I look to this dying leaf phenomenon to tell me when I need to add more....however this time I had the substrate disturbed as well.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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That's an interesting theory but it doesn't fit in my case. There originally wasn't any HC planted in the bare spot. I have been using it to replant any HC from other areas that floats to the surface in order to encourage the carpet to extend. So, by planting HC in that area I have been disturbing the subtrate slightly. However, I also planted a few stems of blyxa in another section which would have disturbed the soil to a greater degree, and the s. repens surrounding that area are unaffected by the melting.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-28-2014, 09:12 AM
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How are your repens doing? Mine are now doing the exact same thing! I've had them for about four months with new growth ect ect, and now I get dead, brown patches as the plant eventually melts.

Did you get yours from Petsmart?
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 08:42 PM
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I found two of my plants like this today, promptly removed them. I recently started dosing a additional phosphate for GSA, maybe this has something to do with it?
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 09:53 PM
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I do agree with jfynyson theory. I am having the same problem in my tank. I had setup s.repens as, last week I disturbed substrate and it followed by s.repens melting. But my confusion is I did disturb substrate in one particular s.repense spot, then the melting started exactly in that spot and it did spread to all near by spots but it didn't reach the ones which has some visible substrate gaps.

But I am sure this is something to do with substrate disturbance
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2014, 02:09 AM
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hmm.

Gokul: "i am sure this is something to do with substrate disturbance"

as do I, I get it sometimes if I vac to hard in one spot. trying to pick up some stray moss



jfynyson: "I believe this kicked up some ammonia" "however this time I had the substrate disturbed as well"


TekWarren: "others report it will bounce back if the root systems have established" "These cases do NOT seem be the result of "converting".

1) mine always does. 2) my tank is over 2 years old, so NOT converting!


tenthe: "The idea of a chemical message makes sense intuitively, it would explain why the browning occurs in patches."

that kind of makes sense too. after 4 months planted, at the start of last summer this happened. nothing all winter, now I'm just getting over some spots here and there


sorry for all the quotes people

in my case I it's very hard for me to vac under all my s.repens (I have a lot as you will see) my first thoughts was "Hydrogen Sulfide "

being a very low to the substrate, and my 3 1/2 inch bed.
bacterial breakdown of organic matter and a lack of of oxygen!
every now and then i'll see a large bubble pop up from under the plants.(?)

(this is why I think this way)

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com...-sulfides.html

http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Hydrogen_sulphide

this could explain the die off for me, but not the OP. (first 4 months, little vacuuming. for most of this winter, even less!)
but I must say never as bad as his

so now every WC and vac I aerate the "lawn" with a chop stick.
open the air intake every night on my powerhead.
and the bad spots are less and less as time go's by.
but still happen now and then. be it only to the large underlying leaves.

photos of past decay:

left alone all spots coming back
















sad thing is, all this. and I really have no advice for the OP. other then to say let it be and see if it comes back.
mine always dose












o2 powerhead with home made skimmer


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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2014, 02:53 AM
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Buckwheet, I think it's safe to say we'd all love to have a s. Repens carpet like yours. Well done!

Last edited by jfynyson; 05-03-2014 at 02:54 AM. Reason: Typos
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2014, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Positron View Post
How are your repens doing? Mine are now doing the exact same thing! I've had them for about four months with new growth ect ect, and now I get dead, brown patches as the plant eventually melts.

Did you get yours from Petsmart?



is this going to be about "Tissue Cultured plants "?
you know the ones that:

eliminate the possibility of introducing contaminants, snails, or algae spores into your aquarium system
propagated by removing a small piece of plant, sterilizing it to eliminate all other organisms, then cultivating it on a nutrient gel?

not to disparage someone, or pick a fight, but whats wrong with them(petsmart plants)?
I've had nothing but the best of luck with them.

EVERY plant (other then the moss) in my 75g came from petsmart!
2 years, and still going strong. don't know why people are so down on them. they are cheap (7.99-8.99 a pack) snail, algae and contaminant free.
and grow very well in my opinion!

sorry no shots of me planting the repens but you can see in some shots how far they've come





































I know my tank is so ugly with these "petsmart" plants, I guess i'll just have to live with it























sorry for the rant
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