Frustration - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Wethersfield, CT
Posts: 21
Frustration

I am about 9 months into the planted tank hobby. I have a 29 gallon tank planted heavily with java ferns, anubias, and amazon swords. After the initial set up I fought and won battles with algae soup, green spot algae, and duckweed. I am getting crushed by BBA though. It made its first appearance about 6 months ago and it was the only algae(visible) in the aquarium, and really not enough of a nuisance to wage war with. All of the sudden over the last few weeks it completely started to take over. I read a ton about it online and determined that it was likely a Co2 problem, and also reduced the photoperiod to 6 hours. I run a Nutrafin canister with a step ladder diffuser and a yeast recipe I found here. I did my typical weekly 15-30% (this time 30%) water change on Friday, and then did all my water tests today. I tested Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, and Nitrate 10 ppm. Then I decided to test pH (6.4), kH (3.0), an gH (1.0) to use a cool online calculator to get a Co2 measure (35.83 ppm). I was quite surprised at the Co2 reading as I thought it would be well below that because I have never seen lush growth in my plants in spite of running a 2x 65 watt hood. (A lot of light for a 29 g but my motto is Go Deep, Go Hard). I dose micros using Flourish, and after seeing older leaves develop holes, while new leaves did fairly well, I have started dosing potassium at water changes. The last test I did was for Phosphorous, the results of which shocked me. The solution turned to an ink blue as soon as the drops of solution 2 hit, the measure was 10.0. So I believe I have found my problem. My question is how the heck did it get so high and how do I get it down to a safe level. Water changes and light gravel vaccuming are religion to me on Saturday morning, and I err on the side of underfeeding. The only thing I have been doing differently is adding Kent Neutral controller. The reason I have been doing this is to help bring my buffering capacity up. The tap water is 7.0 pH but with 1 degree of gH and kH. My pH was regularly getting down to 6.2 and as low as 6.0 at times. In the interim I have added a phosphate sponge to the filter and plan on doing 10-15% water changes every day until I get the phosphorous down to an appropriate level. Thanks for the help, the inforamtion here has proven to be invaluable, and the help on this issue will be much appreciated. I am hoping that once I get the phosphorous down the plants will start to take off and outcompete the algae.
LJSmith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 11:23 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJSmith View Post
The last test I did was for Phosphorous, the results of which shocked me. The solution turned to an ink blue as soon as the drops of solution 2 hit, the measure was 10.0. So I believe I have found my problem. My question is how the heck did it get so high and how do I get it down to a safe level. Water changes and light gravel vaccuming are religion to me on Saturday morning, and I err on the side of underfeeding. The only thing I have been doing differently is adding Kent Neutral controller. The reason I have been doing this is to help bring my buffering capacity up. The tap water is 7.0 pH but with 1 degree of gH and kH. My pH was regularly getting down to 6.2 and as low as 6.0 at times.
It's the Kent Neutral controller which is adding the phosphorous. It is a phosphorous buffer! More disturbingly, however, it will make your CO2 calculations invalid. You actually have much higher CO2 levels in your tank and should probably calculate your CO2 level based on the 6.0 readings you took before adding the buffer.

Forget using phosphate-removing pillows as they only substitue the phosphate with other metal ions. Instead do a 50% water change each of the next few days and your phosphate problems will be history (as long as you discontinue use of the Ken Neutral buffer). You will also need to lower the amount of CO2 being added to your tank and perhaps consider raising the KH buffer to 3 or 4 by adding baking soda to your tank.

Finally, I would recommend raising your GH level up to 5 or 6 dH to ensure you do not have a magnesium or calcium deficiency in your aquarium. This could inhibit plant growth and allow the BBA to gain an upper hand.
Ryan, Monroe, LA is offline  
post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 11:25 PM
Children Boogie
 
mistergreen's Avatar
 
PTrader: (13/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 16,743
the CO2 (ph/kh) chart isn't accurate.. you need a drop checker for that.
You need to dose ferts (N P K, Mg, Ca, SO4, micros) on a regular basis... Or go Low-tech where none of this is needed. Check out threads on this forum and articles on this site... It's handy.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mistergreen is offline  
 
post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 11:55 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 17
Another solution is to use excell. You turn of your filter. Manually remove as much BBA as you can. Get yourself a syringe, fill it with a double or triple dose of excell, and directly apply it to whats left. Let the excell stay there for like ten minutes. If in a few days you do not see a dramatic reduction, repeat.
mas77 is offline  
post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 11:59 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Naja002's Avatar
 
PTrader: (50/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Usa
Posts: 2,601
Great Book Knowledge, Ryan, but how about some Real World?

You are running a 29g tank with 2x65w=130w=4.5wpg (watts/gal)= too much light. You list low light plants (anubias, java fern, amazon swords) that are more than happy at 1x65w. Cut your lights in half and leave them at the 6hrs for now. Move them up to 8hrs, 10 max after you get things back under control.

Next, there is no way that the nutrifin is going to produce enough C02 for 2x65w on that tank. Highly doubtful that it will produce enough for the 1x65w, but even if it does--DIY is unstable. Everything is Great on the upswing, but then as C02 declines--algae shows up. You need a better C02 setup whether its DIY or pressurized.

Additionally, even if you produce enough C02--its unlikely that the ladder will be able to diffuse it, so you need a better diffusion method.

Algae Problems? =Too much light + insuficient C02 + unstable C02. Fix these problems and you will be well on your way.

Don't worry about your pH.<-----Right, don't worry about it--at all. You don't even need to test for it. Why? Because it doesn't matter. Throw the pH/Kh charts out the window. We've moved on to bigger and better things (drop checkers), because the pH/Kh charts are way too squirrley and unreliable. So, throw the pH adjuster in the garbage where it belongs. All it does is add a ton of TDS to the system which is more harmful than any pH will ever be. And in your case, Yes, phosphorous. Yes, do the water changes as suggested. I would do an 80-90% and get most of it in 1 fell swoop, but I am plenty comfortable with that. You may not be.

Get a Drop checker, 4kh solution and your pH indicator solution--You'll be able to tell your C02 from across the room at a glance. Easiest and simplest solution there is, and accurate to boot.

Your Kh is fine. Your Gh may be fine also--really depends upon its composition. Easiest way to find out is either test or leave it alone for now while you fix the other problems. Test or let your plants tell you about your Gh. Its not a big issue right now.

Your tank is not in a book---its real world. So is the water in it and the plants. Here's a real world solution: Turn down your lights, do the WCs, crank up your C02, get a better diffusion method, get a drop checker, forget everything else, then sit on your hands and wait. Things will get better.

Edit: Agreed with mistergreen get a dosing regime--Here's the EI sticky:

_Dosing Regime's_


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Naja002 is offline  
post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Wethersfield, CT
Posts: 21
OK, big help so far, btw the gh is 1.0 (just in case it is relevant to current situation). I'll start with a 90% water change and cutting the lights. Then I'll grab a good Co2 tester, and then find a way to convince the wife I need a pressurized system. Not a high probability event as this hobby started with a $80 complete set up, of which the only thing that remains is the tank itself. I'll do research on a better DIY setup just in case.
LJSmith is offline  
post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 12:35 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Naja002's Avatar
 
PTrader: (50/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Usa
Posts: 2,601
At 1x65w you should be able to pull off 3x 2L bottles--switching 1 out every week. That would give you plenty of C02 production and some reasonable C02 stability.

The Gh really isn't an issue right now. It really just depends on whether its all Ca or all Mg or a ratio of the 2. Its needs to be a bit of both (a ratio). Some believe that the ratio itself maters (3-4:1), some don't.

Spend your energy getting everything else in order, and worry about the Gh later......


Quote:
Not a high probability event as this hobby started with a $80 complete set up, of which the only thing that remains is the tank itself.
Usually the way it works out!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Naja002 is offline  
post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 04:19 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Wethersfield, CT
Posts: 21
Wink

Ok. After lots of reading on DIY vs preessurized Co2, i've decided to go pressurized. The reasoning being, that once I get the tank under control at 1 x 65, I can fire up the other 65 w, put some high light plants in, and if I do that I will be pushing the limits of a DIY system. Plus this tank is in the middle of our dining room, and highly viewable by guests so it needs to look good.
Any thoughts on the best pressurized system for a 29 g, with 2 x 65 watts CF. I am thinking a 5 gal tank would be perfect.
How about diffusers? The Rhinox diffusers look pretty clean in a tank, and seem to be very effective.
I am also thinking of dumping the HOB Emperor 280 biowheel for a RENA canister filter. I have zero expierence with canister filters, but from what I understand they are the way to go. Will I still get good O2 exchange without the HOB surface disturbance or do I need to add something else?
So it looks like the original $85 29 gallon is going to be reinvented.
BTW, it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, so it goes without saying that none of this is getting run by the wife. She will thank me when I get the tank growing some deep green lush plants.
I'll put together a photo journal to share.
LJSmith is offline  
post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 04:34 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 20
Real World, Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naja002 View Post
At 1x65w you should be able to pull off 3x 2L bottles--switching 1 out every week. That would give you plenty of C02 production and some reasonable C02 stability.

The Gh really isn't an issue right now. It really just depends on whether its all Ca or all Mg or a ratio of the 2. Its needs to be a bit of both (a ratio). Some believe that the ratio itself maters (3-4:1), some don't.

Spend your energy getting everything else in order, and worry about the Gh later......
Yeah, my suggestions are real impractical for the real world Like my "stop using the Kent Neutral Buffer" suggestion-- real impractical. And my suggestion to stop wasting money on phosphate removing pillows-- real impractical. And my suggestion to do large water changes to remove the phosphate-- real impractical. I could have suggested a more complecated or expensive CO2 setup but felt maybe THAT would be a bit IMPRACTICAL given his setup.

That said, I do agree with some of what you have written, Naja. Mainly the suggestion to reduce lighting levels, given the species he's growing. I'd missed that one. Conversely he could change the species he is growing to weedier, high-light bunch-plant types. And of course an upgrade to pressurized tank CO2 would be nice and very beneficial, but high dollar for a little 29-gallon tank.

But let me give you a dose of some of MY real world experience. One 2 liter bottle of homemade CO2 mix was more than enough to have my fish gasping for oxygen at the surface of my old 55 gallon high-light planted tank (filled to the brim with thriving hygrophilia). I agree with having three bottles going at once, changing them out on a rotation to provide consistancy, but saying one Nutrafin cannot supply his 29 gallon sufficiently (at least for a week) is simply not true.

And Naja, you seem to be a believer in the EI method of dosing, but yet you also think having single degree of GH is perfectly OK for the planted aquarium. If someone follows the EI method of dosing properly, they'd better have a GH greater than 1 dH. The suggested fertilization levels of magnesium and calcium in the method requires the GH to be higher.
Ryan, Monroe, LA is offline  
post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 05:13 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 20
Lj

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJSmith View Post
Ok. After lots of reading on DIY vs preessurized Co2, i've decided to go pressurized. The reasoning being, that once I get the tank under control at 1 x 65, I can fire up the other 65 w, put some high light plants in, and if I do that I will be pushing the limits of a DIY system. Plus this tank is in the middle of our dining room, and highly viewable by guests so it needs to look good.
Any thoughts on the best pressurized system for a 29 g, with 2 x 65 watts CF. I am thinking a 5 gal tank would be perfect.
How about diffusers? The Rhinox diffusers look pretty clean in a tank, and seem to be very effective.
I am also thinking of dumping the HOB Emperor 280 biowheel for a RENA canister filter. I have zero expierence with canister filters, but from what I understand they are the way to go. Will I still get good O2 exchange without the HOB surface disturbance or do I need to add something else?
So it looks like the original $85 29 gallon is going to be reinvented.
BTW, it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, so it goes without saying that none of this is getting run by the wife. She will thank me when I get the tank growing some deep green lush plants.
I'll put together a photo journal to share.
While I use canister filters in my tank, you probably would be well-advised to keep your hang-on power filter. Hang on filters do a great job and don't worry about them producing too much surface agitation. They won't drive out too much CO2 and are easier to maintain than cannister filters. Canister filters are nice because you can hook up inline devices in the return lines such as external heaters and UV sterilizers, but you should take that money and devote it to something else on your tank. They won't make the water quality any better or clearer than a hang-on filter. Even the most expensive filters don't have magical powers-- they're all really only providing biological filtration. Expensive filters don't let you change the water in your aquarium any less often.

A 5-gallon size CO2 tank should be fine for your aquarium. I like the idea of using a porous glass/ceramic diffuser such as the Rhinox for your tank. I use a similar one for my 75 gallon tank.

Consider whether you want to spend another $50-65 for a solenoid to use with your CO2 setup. It can be used to automate CO2 input with your light timer or a pH controller.
Ryan, Monroe, LA is offline  
post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 05:18 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Wethersfield, CT
Posts: 21
Thanks. I am thinking of grabbing a JBJ regulator with solenoid. It was under 100 bucks online with everything I would need. I have a digital timer already so it is a good fit. I'll grab the Rhinox as well. I am liking the idea of not having to mess with yeast mixtures anymore.
LJSmith is offline  
post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 02:46 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Naja002's Avatar
 
PTrader: (50/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Usa
Posts: 2,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan, Monroe, LA View Post
Yeah, my suggestions are real impractical for the real world Like my "stop using the Kent Neutral Buffer" suggestion-- real impractical. And my suggestion to stop wasting money on phosphate removing pillows-- real impractical. And my suggestion to do large water changes to remove the phosphate-- real impractical. I could have suggested a more complecated or expensive CO2 setup but felt maybe THAT would be a bit IMPRACTICAL given his setup.
I never suggested a more complicated or expensive C02 setup. Reread my post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan, Monroe, LA View Post
That said, I do agree with some of what you have written, Naja. Mainly the suggestion to reduce lighting levels, given the species he's growing. I'd missed that one. Conversely he could change the species he is growing to weedier, high-light bunch-plant types. And of course an upgrade to pressurized tank CO2 would be nice and very beneficial, but high dollar for a little 29-gallon tank.
He doesn't need to upgrade to pressurized C02 or weeds. Those are options/choices, sure. My position was working mainly with what he has plus some necessary additions. You missed the entire algae, lighting, C02 situation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan, Monroe, LA View Post
But let me give you a dose of some of MY real world experience. One 2 liter bottle of homemade CO2 mix was more than enough to have my fish gasping for oxygen at the surface of my old 55 gallon high-light planted tank (filled to the brim with thriving hygrophilia).
Cool, but out of ~1 billion people on the internet--I'd say you are the only one that believes that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan, Monroe, LA View Post
I agree with having three bottles going at once, changing them out on a rotation to provide consistancy, but saying one Nutrafin cannot supply his 29 gallon sufficiently (at least for a week) is simply not true.
Get some real world practical experience and there will be no need to quibble over this type of nonsense. I've run a 29g 1x65w. 1 nutrifin won't cut it. 2 nutrifins won't cut it. Period. It definitely isn't going to do squat on a 2x65w.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan, Monroe, LA View Post
And Naja, you seem to be a believer in the EI method of dosing, but yet you also think having single degree of GH is perfectly OK for the planted aquarium. If someone follows the EI method of dosing properly, they'd better have a GH greater than 1 dH. The suggested fertilization levels of magnesium and calcium in the method requires the GH to be higher.
EI is a Great Beginner's regime and good for the long-haul. But EI is totally flexible and intended to be adapted to each tank over time as things progress--including the owner. So, keep reading and maybe things will finally come together for you in a way that will allow you to actually repeat valid information. Because that's all You're doing--repeating stuff you've read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Naja002; 11-26-2007 at 05:01 PM.
Naja002 is offline  
post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 03:07 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Naja002's Avatar
 
PTrader: (50/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Usa
Posts: 2,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJSmith View Post
Ok. After lots of reading on DIY vs preessurized Co2, i've decided to go pressurized. The reasoning being, that once I get the tank under control at 1 x 65, I can fire up the other 65 w, put some high light plants in, and if I do that I will be pushing the limits of a DIY system. Plus this tank is in the middle of our dining room, and highly viewable by guests so it needs to look good.
Any thoughts on the best pressurized system for a 29 g, with 2 x 65 watts CF.
Here's some info on--- C02 Equipment

Quick thoughts:

Low end--Azoo or JBJ with preference toward Azoo.

High end quality-- the Rex Reg. Rex has the best equipment and can hook you up with the quality components that you need. He also offers all the dry-ferts for a solid dosing regime:

Ferts

The Combo pack will get You covered, last quite a while and is under $20shipped.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LJSmith View Post
I am thinking a 5 gal tank would be perfect.
How about diffusers? The Rhinox diffusers look pretty clean in a tank, and seem to be very effective.
Whatever size tank you can afford and will fit under the stand. Bigger is better--usually.

I will leave you to do some research on diffusion methods--plenty available: internal, external, powered, passive, glass difussors, etc, etc, etc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LJSmith View Post
I am also thinking of dumping the HOB Emperor 280 biowheel for a RENA canister filter. I have zero expierence with canister filters, but from what I understand they are the way to go. Will I still get good O2 exchange without the HOB surface disturbance or do I need to add something else?
Regardless of the dribble junior is spouting--once you start injecting C02 you'll want to start looking to conserve it also. C02 loss can be minimized with a HOB, but a canister filter is a better choice for a planted tank. The xP series are good filters. An xP2 is a Good choice for that tank. An xP3 would not be too powerful , so keep that option in mind, if you are willing to spend the extra $$.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LJSmith View Post
So it looks like the original $85 29 gallon is going to be reinvented.
BTW, it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, so it goes without saying that none of this is getting run by the wife. She will thank me when I get the tank growing some deep green lush plants.
I'll put together a photo journal to share.
Always amazes how some folks wonder how other folks get stuff done when they have a spouse--this is How!


Quote:
Originally Posted by LJSmith View Post
Thanks. I am thinking of grabbing a JBJ regulator with solenoid. It was under 100 bucks online with everything I would need. I have a digital timer already so it is a good fit. I'll grab the Rhinox as well. I am liking the idea of not having to mess with yeast mixtures anymore.
Pressurized is a Good long-term investment. You won't regret it!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Naja002 is offline  
post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 03:10 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naja002 View Post
Cool, but out of ~1 billion people on the internet--I'd say you are the only one that beleives that. Get some real world practical experience and there will be no need to quibble over this type of nonsense. I've run a 29g 1x65w. 1 nutrifin won't cut it. 2 nutrifins won't cut it. Period. It definitely isn't going to do squat on a 2x65w.
Did you ever consider that perhaps you weren't fully utilizing those CO2 bubbles from the Nutrafin? That perhaps the CO2 was just more efficiently utilized in my setup? I mounted my home-made CO2 outlet line below the suction line of my cannister, meaning the bubble contact time with the water was extremely long.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Naja002 View Post
EI is a Great Beginner's regime and good for the long-haul. But EI is totally flexible and intended to be adapted to each tank over time as things progress--including the owner. So, keep reading and maybe things will finally come together for you in a way that will allow to to actually repeat valid information. Because that's all You're doing--repeating stuff you've read.
No, I'm not just repeating what I've read. The plants in my 75 gallon have shown signs of severe nutrient defficiency when the GH has dropped below 2dH. Did you ever think that both of us might be correct? That perhaps I use a nutrient-poor gravel substrate, requiring a higher water-column nutrient content? The asker of the question didn't mention his substrate, so perhaps he needs to maintain higher nutrient levels like I do in the water column.
Ryan, Monroe, LA is offline  
post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 03:23 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Naja002's Avatar
 
PTrader: (50/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Usa
Posts: 2,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan, Monroe, LA View Post
Did you ever consider that perhaps you weren't fully utilizing those CO2 bubbles from the Nutrafin? That perhaps the CO2 was just more efficiently utilized in my setup? I mounted my home-made CO2 outlet line below the suction line of my cannister, meaning the bubble contact time with the water was extremely long.
No, Ryan, I didn't consider those types of things, because there was no need to. There is still no need to. The only possible way would be if you added enough yeast that the mixture expired itself in 3-4 days or less, and you didn't bother to tell us that part. Reality? Its BS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan, Monroe, LA View Post
No, I'm not just repeating what I've read.
You are following the stuff you've read/learned over time. Then taking your "Real World" experince (following those guidelines) and trying to correlate all into fact. So, your "Real World" "experience" is nothing more than what you have read. Reread this part until you get it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan, Monroe, LA View Post
The plants in my 75 gallon have shown signs of severe nutrient defficiency when the GH has dropped below 2dH. Did you ever think that both of us might be correct? That perhaps I use a nutrient-poor gravel substrate, requiring a higher water-column nutrient content? The asker of the question didn't mention his substrate, so perhaps he needs to maintain higher nutrient levels like I do in the water column.
The Gh is in the water column, so the substrate is pretty irrelevent. Its about balance, not substrate. Once You get these things--you'll understand why your theory is nothing more than theory......


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Naja002 is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome