What's In Trace? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-22-2007, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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What's In Trace?

And do I need it? I am dosing all of Seachem's products, but not the Trace.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-22-2007, 12:17 PM
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Are you dosing Flourish? If so, you are dosing trace. Trace elements, also known as micronutrients are the things that your plants need, but not in great amounts. Things like iron, calcium, magnesium.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-22-2007, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishscale View Post
Are you dosing Flourish? If so, you are dosing trace.
Yes I am, thanks for your reply.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-22-2007, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by waterfaller1 View Post
And do I need it? I am dosing all of Seachem's products, but not the Trace.
There is some confusion between Flourish and Flourish Trace. They are two separate Seachem products. Flourish is a comprehensive fert that has a small amount of macro ferts and many different micro ferts or "trace" elements. Some people call Flourish by the name "trace" with is somewhat incorrect. I usually call it Flourish comp.

Seachem has a product specifically called Flourish Trace. It's like spring water or something. It has a few elements in it and you really don't need it. Those elements are probably in your tap water and they are replaced when you do water changes.

Anyway, here's the two products from Seachem's site. The ingredients of each product are given.
Flourish: http://www.seachem.com/products/prod.../Flourish.html
Flourish Trace: http://www.seachem.com/products/prod...rishTrace.html

I hope this helps you understand the difference.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-22-2007, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the links. It appears the Trace has higher concentrations of some of the elements, and a few that the Flourish comp. does not.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-22-2007, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Seachem has a product specifically called Flourish Trace. It's like spring water or something. It has a few elements in it and you really don't need it. Those elements are probably in your tap water and they are replaced when you do water changes.
Read that carefully, as it is pretty much the truth.

Seachem produces a lot of great planted aquarium products, unfortunately Flourish Trace is not one of them. Flourish Trace offers very, very little to plant nutrition that using it is pointless. The nutrients offered pretty much available in Flourish and plain old tap water. I've maintained planted aquariums for several years now with success and have never used Flourish Trace. I'll hazard the guess that the majority of members here have also had great success without Flourish Trace.

They are your aquariums, and it is your money...buy and do what you want. However, I'll save the $7 per half liter and stick with plain old Flourish.



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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-23-2007, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Left C View Post
There is some confusion between Flourish and Flourish Trace. They are two separate Seachem products. Flourish is a comprehensive fert that has a small amount of macro ferts and many different micro ferts or "trace" elements. Some people call Flourish by the name "trace" with is somewhat incorrect. I usually call it Flourish comp.
Hmmm , you got me thinking, I've never heard it refered to as anything other than micro/traces so i took a look at the fine print. Doesnt say anything about macros, except that for macros you need to use other seachem products:

Quote:
Flourish™ is a comprehensive plant supplement for the natural freshwater aquarium. It contains a rich assortment of important micro elements, trace elements and other nutrients. These include calcium, magnesium, iron and other important elements that have been shown to be beneficial to aquatic plants. For macro element (NPK) fertilization, use Flourish Nitrogen™, Flourish Phosphorus™ or Flourish Potassium™ as needed.
And in the contents the only macro pssibly there is K from potassium chloride. Doesnt sound like any real macros to me...

Quote:
Derived from: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Copper Sulfate, Magnesium Chloride, Ferrous Gluconate, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate, Protein Hydrolysates.
As far as flourish trace goes... folks have called it watered down flourish many times. Just stick with flourish.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-23-2007, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishscale View Post
Are you dosing Flourish? If so, you are dosing trace. Trace elements, also known as micronutrients are the things that your plants need, but not in great amounts. Things like iron, calcium, magnesium.
calcium & magnesium are not trace elements.. Plants need quite a bit of it... around the 20-30ppm range.. Trace elements are in the less than .5ppm range.


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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-23-2007, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for clarifying it for me.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-23-2007, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by crazy loaches View Post
Hmmm , you got me thinking, I've never heard it referred to as anything other than micro/traces so i took a look at the fine print. Doesn't say anything about macros, except that for macros you need to use other Seachem products...
Hi crazy loaches

This isn't completely true. Flourish does contain small amounts of some of the macronutrients. The bold ones are the small amounts of macronutrients included in Flourish. That why Seachem refers to it as a comprehensive fert, but like you said; it doesn't contain a high amount of these macro ferts therefore other products are needed.

"Guaranteed Analysis
Total Nitrogen 0.07% for Nitrogen
Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01% for Phosphorus
Soluble Potash 0.37% for Potassium
Calcium (Ca) 0.14% for Calcium
Magnesium (Mg) 0.11% for Magnesium
Sulfur (S) 0.2773% for Sulfur
Boron (B) 0.009%
Chlorine (Cl) 1.15%
Cobalt (Co) 0.0004%
Copper (Cu) 0.0001%
Iron (Fe) 0.32%
Manganese (Mn) 0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009%
Sodium (Na) 0.13%
Zinc (Zn) 0.0007%

Derived from: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Copper Sulfate, Magnesium Chloride, Ferrous Gluconate, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate, Protein Hydrolysates.

Some components are no longer listed in the Guaranteed Analysis due to state regulations. The formulation of this product has not be altered."



This is from: http://www.aquariaplants.com/nutrientsfertilizers.htm
"There are 17 essential elements that aquatic plants need. They are broken down into 2 main groups, macronutrients and micronutrients.

There are nine Macronutrients as follows:
Hydrogen
Oxygen
Carbon
Nitrogen
Potassium
Calcium
Magnesium
Phosphorus
Sulfur

And there are eight Micronutrients as follows:
Iron
Manganese
Chlorine
Zinc
Boron
Nickel
Copper
Molybdenum
"



The ones that are in bold are macronutrients. You can see that Flourish contains small amounts of all the macronutrients except for Hydrogen, Oxygen and Carbon that we get from other sources. It contains all the micronutrients except for Nickel. The Nickel is in Flourish Trace. Flourish also contains Cobalt and Sodium which are not listed as micronutrients. Flourish contains Protein Hydrolysates as well.



Like you said, you do need to add more of the macronutrients to get the concentrations that we need in our aquariums. But, like I mentioned; there are small amounts of most of the macronutrients.

I hope this helps to clear things up some.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-23-2007, 10:07 PM
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So they just have trace amounts of macros

Thats interesting though, I must have skipped of the Guaranteed Analysis and just was looking at the ingredients. Still have no idea where those macros come from other than the K like I said before, except maybe for Protein Hydrolysates which I now nothing about.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-23-2007, 11:07 PM
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in a low tech environment, I guess flourish would do fine.


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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2007, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy loaches View Post
So they just have trace amounts of macros
That's funny, but it's correct too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy loaches View Post
Thats interesting though, I must have skipped of the Guaranteed Analysis and just was looking at the ingredients. Still have no idea where those macros come from other than the K like I said before, except maybe for Protein Hydrolysates which I now nothing about.
Maybe this will help some. I'll write the chemical formula for each compound that's listed in Seachem's derived from section for Flourish.

The bold elements will be the macro nutrients and the italicized elements will be the micro nutrients. The elements that aren't macro or micro nutrients are written in the normal font. Carbon, hydrogen and oxygen aren't listed here.

Potassium Chloride - KCl - potassium chlorine
Calcium Chloride - CaCl2 - calcium chlorine
Copper Sulfate - CuSO4 - copper sulfur
Magnesium Chloride - MgCl2 - magnesium chlorine
Ferrous Gluconate - C12H24FeO14 - iron
Cobalt Sulfate - CoSO4 - cobalt sulfur
Magnesium Sulfate - MgSO4 - magnesium sulfur
Manganese Sulfate - MnSO4 - manganese sulfur
Boric Acid - B(OH)3 - boron
Sodium Molybdate - Na2MoO4 - sodium molybdenum
Zinc Sulfate - ZnSO4 - zinc sulfur
Protein Hydrolysates - proteins broken down by acid or enzymes into amino acids

I hope this helps a little bit.

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Last edited by Left C; 11-25-2007 at 09:47 AM.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2007, 09:02 PM
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Well, as I said before the only one I wasnt sure about was the protien... the part that was in question, N and P, I still dont see in any of those.

But it should not matter. It seems the N and P are so low you get many times more probably from fish food/waste, so unless you have no fish a very very few you can pretty much say it doesnt add a significant amount.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2007, 10:40 PM
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I'm pretty sure that the nitrogen listed comes from some of the Protein Hydrolysates. They're proprietary, I believe, and they aren't listed. I'm not sure how phosphorus fits in unless it's part of the amino acids in the Protein Hydrolysates.

In chemistry, an amino acid is a molecule that contains both amine and carboxyl functional groups. In biochemistry, this term refers to alpha-amino acids with the general formula H2NCHRCOOH, where R is an organic substituent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid

Total Nitrogen 0.07% for Nitrogen
Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01% for Phosphorus

Like you said, there's not enough nitrigen and phosphorus in Flourish to worry about anyway.

Take care,

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