Small North American Native Pond - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 02:53 AM Thread Starter
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Small North American Native Pond

I've been wanting a pond in my backyard and I love fishing (i definately won't fish in this one) so I'm pretty sure I'm gonna do a North American Native Pond. I just need help with the amounts of each species, order they're added, or if it would even work.

Right Now I'm thinking I'd like to have a 10 foot diameter 4 ft deep circular pond with
- As many bass as would work with the other fish
- Bluegill (or whatever sunfish I can get a hold of)
- Rosy Red Minnows (I'm gonna breed them in a different 600 gallon pond so I'll put as many minnows in the big pond as I can without hurting the population in the smaller pond)
- Red Cherry Shrimp (I recently started a 55 gallon RCS only tank so soon I'll have tons)
The Rosie's and Shrimp would just be food for the Bass and Pan fish that I hope would live a while

For plants I was thinking
- Anacharis and Hornwort (I'll hide PVC pipes in them so the Rosie's can spawn) covering only about half of the bottom so the Pan Fish have room to spawn too
- Lily Pads (or similar floaters covering about 1/4 of the pond

Also how would I get electricity to the pond (so I can filter it, light it, and aerate it) without running extension cords to it?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 04:30 AM
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doubt the RCS is live or keep a stable colony unless you get a good amount of hiding spots. That's alot of fish man!
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
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I'd plant it pretty heavily to try to keep the RCS and Rosies alive for as long as possible but they wouldn't have to live long because I'm gonna breed both on a pretty large scale and I'll put all the RCS and Rosies in there that I can without putting too big a dent in the rcs or rosy population at once and hopefully the pan fish would spawn and have at least some fry produced from them
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 06:13 AM
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGUILAR3 View Post
Reality Lol, filtering would've been a nightmare and I decided I didn't want to take up a fourth of my backyard for a 2700 gallon pond, also the fish wouldn't have the room to turn around in 3ft wide so If i wanted anything big I would've gone with 5 or 6 ft wide and that would make it huge and take up more of my yard and filtering would be even more of a nightmare so I decided to come up with another simpler Idea and that Idea included a lot of digging that would need to be precise and to dig deeper than an inch in my soil you need a pick which isn't precise
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 02:08 PM
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Bass are 100% predator and will eat enything smaller than themselves. I'd have to ask my brother where it is but a pond in Mississippi has ONE bass in it and several brim/perch and very little cover/grass etc for any of them. It is a swimming hole and I have been under water in it watching the bass and brim. It is just under an acre in size.
If you do this, know that either you feed them or they starve because a pond that size won't support but a pair of brim and the feed minnows to go/w them and be self
sustaining. But...you can put in a divider made of a wall of congested brush with the floating Hortworth on the smaller side of it and then the minnows/shrimp can actually breed/multiply enough to feed the fish and the pond would need practcally Zero maintenance/air/filters etc.
You can then throw in any food you like but not have the pond dependant on it.
You can do this any way you like but you won't need that big bucks breeding opperation to have the pond as I suggested...your choice.
In this case you could put in what are called Goggle Eyed perch/Rock Bass(same fish)
that get fairly large (don't know exactly but like 7") and from the name you can guess that they look almost like a Bass and are just as predatory and only eat live food. Other brim can be taught to eat pellets. They can by bought from here.
http://www.aquaculturestore.com/Warmouth.html
BTW my brother has pond for years and uses an extension cord to heat it and run his fountain pump. He has a common Pleco living in it all year and it gets down in the 50's in the winter in it. Maybe even less. But he just has one of those plastic Loew's ponds.
It is two tiered and the Pleco actually goes up to the top level up the water fall whenever he wants to.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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You can do this any way you like but you won't need that big bucks breeding opperation to have the pond as I suggested...your choice.
The breeding operation for me is mostly not because I have to but to justify a second pond and a large tank to my parents lol

and I wasn't planning on it being 100% self dependant but I want to have shrimp in a 55 gallon and am just going to put the extras in the pond like when I look in the tank at feeding time and I can't see my substrate and instead I see a wall of red I'll take some shrimp out to keep the population under control. Also I'd like to feed all live food and rosy reds and shrimp are probably the most prolific breeders that would survive for any length of time and rosie's are dirt cheap so It wont take much money to start my breeding pond

I'm probably gonna get smallmouth bass for the pond and how many bass would you put in that size pond? I think it's a little under 2400 Gallons
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 03:18 PM
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A small mouth bass can live/w an adult perch but if you get a pair or more they may still kill the other fish when they spawn. One may get along for lack of being able to eat the other fish for their size. People are confused when Oscars throw everything out of a tank...it's a S. American perch and their "bed" where they want to lay eggs on is about 3-4' in diameter. Everything must go from this aria. Er go the tank is not really that big so everything goes from the tank.
But any fish that comes inside of whatever radius they determine around that bed is off limits to other fish. So a pair of Small Mouth Bass would likely kill anything in about a 7' radius of the center of their bed when spawning.
Theoretically you could put in three or four of only male or female though.
If you picture a ten inch Oscar in a ten G tank, you can see why the inch per gallon rule is not favored. But in was a rule about air/Oxygen also. So keep that in mind.
Hortworth is great for taking out nitrates/ammonia so I'd bet you might not need a filter if you had a power head inside the grass aria pushing the water through the grass.
Oh, and BTW...I get the thing where you get a fish that outgrows the tank so you can..."look you can see I need a larger tank"...LOL...
Actually, I think that if you ran an air line under the "grass" you wouldn't need a power head as it would circulate enough water through the grass to use it as a filter.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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If I didn't have any bluegill then how many smallmouth bass could I have? because I'd be getting the bass in between 2 and 5 inches so i think it'd be impossible to get all male or all female because the difference doesn't come until they're sexually mature and even then it usually only shows during spawning season
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 05:11 PM
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Actually I would call a state game and fish hatchery to find that out. They have ponds which are heavilly aireated but sould be able to tell you some kind of rough idea as to what stocking level works best.
There is a site called Aqadvisor. Some don't trust it because many errors are on it.
But it can generally get you within close estimating range. The major problems I have seen/w it are in compatibility of species. If it might, they say it does. So they overestimate fish not being compatible when some can depending on individual fish.
They also don't get larger than 500G so I used that and addd 10 SMB and they said it was a 85% stocking needing a 48% water change per week.
They are also working within the concept that this is a tank with filtration etc.
With adult SMB in there eating and everything that goes/w that happening in there
it might be wise to keep it down to a dozen or less.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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I would filter so if I had filtration rated for that sized pond and tons of hornwort and anacharis how many bass and sunfish could I have

Last edited by Andrew.; 02-02-2014 at 06:23 PM. Reason: adding more info
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
There is a site called Aqadvisor. Some don't trust it because many errors are on it.
But it can generally get you within close estimating range. The major problems I have seen/w it are in compatibility of species. If it might, they say it does. So they overestimate fish not being compatible when some can depending on individual fish.
Thanks a ton!!!!!! I went to the site and told it the equivalent of a 2400 gallon pond in tank measurements it said with 15 5 inch SMB (I will put them in small and If more than 6 or 7 make it to adulthood I'll have a nice meal), 4 8 inch Yellow Perch (I want more variety and can't get small perch so they'd be in between 6 and 9 inches when i stock them), and 30 4 inch bluegill (I don't care if they don't make it to adulthood I'll just stock some every once in a while if they get eaten) It says that would put me at 35% stocking and 6% water change per week. then when they get to adulthood with 7 Adult Smallmouth Bass, 3 Adult Yellow Perch (I figure I'll probably lose at least one), and 10 adult bluegill It I'd be at 45% stocking and a 9% wc per week so If you say thats accurate I'll do those fish with tons of hornwort and anacharis and lilly pads covering about a fourth of the top

Last edited by Andrew.; 02-02-2014 at 07:07 PM. Reason: more recent info
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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