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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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angelfish question

Hi everyone
I have a 56 column tank heavily planted with jf and Anabis.
Last week I added 5 juvenile angelfish. They are all getting along well and all are eating well except for 1. I have a albino angelfish and no matter what I feed him he spits it out. Ive tried live and frozen blood worms frozen mysis shrimp pellets and flake food. Ive even tried soaking it in garlic. My question is im going over tomorrow to pic up 3 cory. Should I add a 6th angel just in case the albino continues to refuse food? I know the longer I wait the more difficult it is to add another angel.
For filtration I have a fluval 405 fluval 208 aquaclear 110 ive tested the water and everything is as it should be.
Thanks
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 10:02 PM
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I had a albino juvenile and the 1st few days he would not eat , I thought maybe I would lose him then one morning he just started to eat with the others, at 1st only blood worms then slowly flake food
I had 7 angels in a 75g with a cleaning crew when the plants started to grow in aggression increased .
I would say your fully stocked without adding any more angels they will grow into your tank along with the plants.
PS don't overfeed angels are pigs when it comes to food.
The albino will catch on or die but you have done every thing possible.

125g,75g,50g,40g,27g,10g
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks aqguy
That makes me feel better. I've heard that you should never keep angelfish in even numbers. So I was concerned if he didn't make it id be left with 4 and at that point adding a 5th would be difficult
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 11:55 PM
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I haven't kept angels for a long time, but I had a bunch of Bumbleebee goby's or still have, and at first they wouldn't eat at all. Not even live food. Now they are very active feeders, they will even swim up into the water column to go after food. I guess some fish just need time to figure it our. Or maybe just get hungry enough to give it a try.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks fishumms
That's kinda the direction im headed. I can give him a few more days to see what he's going to do.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 01:50 AM
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Each fish is a bit different, and the amount of time it takes for it to settle in after a move is different. Sounds like this fish is taking longer to get adjusted. It'll probably come along in time, or it might not ever come around and die. You just don't know. Just be patient with it, and also feed a variety of foods, so you'll at least know you're giving it a variety and hopefully will take something. I just got 6 angels about a month ago as well. One didn't come around for almost 2 weeks. But then it decided to eat. They were quater size when they got here, now somewhere between half and silver dollar size.

I know you'll not like what I'll say here, but here it goes. To me it seems like you are rushing too quickly in stocking the tank. I think you should give each fish variety time to quarantine and settle out. I'd add the angels, and then wait 3 months to see if they are healthy. Then if they are healthy I'd add the other fish. Otherwise, if they get sick, you'll never know which fish infected which.

Just remember even fish that are truly healthy, and get by the 3 month quarantine, still have their own 'germs' that they themselves are immune to. But when they are exposed to other fish, the new fish are exposed to those 'Germs' and will get sick. It's like when you go on vacation. You are healthy. You get to the new vacation spot. Everyone there is also healthy. Yet you get sick, because you are exposed to germs you have never see before.

Also you need to allow your beneficial bacteria time to adjust to your increased bio load. You might start to have mini cycles when to add fish too quickly.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I think what you said makes lots of sense. Let me ask you this. Is it safe not to have bottom feeders for 3 months? I've been watching the albino tonight and he's definitely eating plants. I see him pulling little peices off one small plant and eating it. If the bottom feeders aren't needed to clean up the substrate im in no rush to add the cory.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 03:07 AM
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Well I'm no expert, so my thinking is worth what you pay for it. Nothing lol. But since you ask, here's my thinking. Is it correct? I don't know.

I don't think having bottom feeders will make much of a net difference. One the one hand, the bottom feeder does clean up things to some extent. BUT, have you ever seen how much they put out? So overall my guess is that having bottom feeders doesn't help. I think you are adding to bio load overall.

You have to vacuum your substrate no matter what you do. I change water twice a week(maybe 90% each time), and vacuum the substrate almost every time. But at the very least, I vacuum once a week. And I only have 6 small angelfish. If you don't vacuum your substrate you'll never be able to keep your nitrates low, which angels want. On top of that, you'll start to have algae problems as well.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 03:51 AM
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Angelfish are susceptible to Hexamita and , a few other nasties.
If he doesn't start eating soon. you will probably need to start a Metronidazole, and/ or Praziquantel treatment.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks nu2plants
I just received my vacuum in the mail. Since I just added the fish last week this will be the first time im going to vacuum it. I plan on 30% wc each week.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks mark allred
I watched him closely last night and he is definitely eating leaves from a small plant in there. His belly was nice and full. Ill keep a close eye on him. Im going to try tiny pellets today.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 04:29 PM
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Yea a vacuum is good to have. I wouldn't limit myself to any set percentage of water change. Usually the more the better, but really your parameters will tell you what you need. Angels want their nitrates low, like less than 10 low. If you keep it higher, you stress them. At first you might not notice anything, but over time the stress builds, and eventually the angels will get sick.

I vacuum the substrate with almost every water change. But I'm thinking of buying a small pump like maybe a maxi jet, to pull the tank water out with. This way it'll be faster than with the vacuum. I do however have a pump, that I use to pump the aged water from my brute garbage can back into the tank. I takes me about 10 mins to pump back about 50 gallons back into the tank.

The vacuum takes maybe 20 or so, never timed that. But I do feel vacuuming the substrate is important. I have sand so I see all the filth right on the top. That's why I picked sand. It doesn't go down between the gravel pieces. If you have gravel, the vacuuming is even more important. While you might now see as much junk, it's there. It's below the gravel level, and decaying. Just like you saw in your filter. It's decaying and contaminating your tank. The serious discus people don't have substrate. They go bare bottom, so they can see the the junk immediately, and get it out. They keep the bottom and sides of the tank wiped down almost daily. Discus want even less nitrates, less than 5.

Oh and yes, the bottom dwellers do play in the substrate, and 'kind' of clean up, but I wouldn't depend on them for any 'real' house cleaning. They put out their own waste too. You'll still need to vacuum.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks nu2plants
Ive decided to wait a while for the bttm guys. Thanks for the info on the vac. I don't see how I can spend a lot of time vac because 90% of my tank has plants is really full. Im hoping the plants will take advantage of the fish poo. Oh yeah the albino ate a few micro pellets.
I really appreciate all your advice.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 04:49 AM
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I guess I don't agree on the vacuuming thing. I am running three heavily planted tanks.
My 125 has been setup over one year now, 11 large angelfish, 5 Corydoras, 4 Bolivian Rams,
and a few Bristlenose Plecos, and snails. I have never once vacuumed the substrate,
and have Angels spawning every two weeks. Continuous water changes. 0 Nitrates, 0 Phosphate.
My 65H, almost a year, Apistios, Rams, Bristlenose. No vacs ever, 0 Nitrates, 0 Phosphate. Similar for my 29.
The last few months, I have accumulated some Malaysian Trumpet Snails.
They supposedly keep the gravel turned over to some extent. However, they are prolific breeders.
I now have some Clown Loaches in quarantine to hopefully reduce their numbers.
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

The 65 Tall
[IMG][/IMG]

The 29
[IMG][/IMG]

And yes, I have been the vacuum route. I used to vacuum the Hell out of this Discus tank.
I think my twice weekly 50% water changes would have sufficed, and maybe planted a little heavier...
[IMG][/IMG]
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Wow Mark allred
Beautiful tanks! My plan is 30% weekly wc ill probably bac once to twice a month depending how dirty the substrate gets. Like I had said before at least 90% of my substrate is heavily planted so my vac will be limited. Let me just say again wow beautiful tanks

Last edited by partobe; 01-10-2014 at 12:37 PM. Reason: spelling
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