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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 04:55 AM Thread Starter
Ras
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UGH need help asap if you see this thread please respond!

so my heater brokedown and my otos started scratching against rocks looking kinda sickly I went and got some antibiotics (melafix) and have been treating for two days. I then realized the potential problem was my heater . so i got a new one and after installing it about two - three hours passed and one of my ember tetras had a VERy red inflamed gill on only the left side
I've tried but I cant get a pic because they are so damn small and move like lightning
it looks very similar to this though

minus the bloating and the gill is a little less swollen on my fish

i am confused and Idk what to do from here
what could of cause this?
did I raise the tempeture too fast? (74 - 78f in about 2 hours )
contaminant in the water?
oh and heres the best part
My tank is half distilled and half tap water
thats what I mix every WC and how I setup the tank
I dont have any distilled water on hand right now and every store is closed this time at night
SO idk if its even safe to do a water change with just tap because it might shift the water parameters
and I was planning on getting a hospital tank this monday when I got money! ofc this had to happen now
somebody please help before my tank collapses

btw my test 0 ammonia 5-10 nitrate
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 05:03 AM
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Do you treat the water at changes with conditioner to remove chlorine and ammonia? The only time I've had gills become inflamed is from ammonia burn when I forgot to add prime. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will jump in.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 05:30 AM Thread Starter
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yea I do treat the water
and I thought that too but it is only one gill and 0 ammonia on the test
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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any other opinions?
does anyone know if it'd be safe to treat an ember tetra with aquarium salt?
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 08:47 AM
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I don't think that 4 degrees is too much for 2 hrs. If it had been down it might have. I think the Tetra is having a reaction to the meds.
Since it's only one and one gill on that one, I'd just wait it out. Wouldn't hurt to do the W/C in the A.M. though.
I use distilled for a very specific reason. That 50/50 mix you said doesn't seem to have a point that I can see. Are you adjusting the Ph
for a particular reason ? Or is adjusting the Ph even anything to do with why you put the R/O in there ?
My tap water reads a darker blue than what they have for the top Ph on the low end test kit chart. As I have no high end kit, I guestimate
it is between 7.8 and 8.2 from the tap. So I add (don't know the percent) 40oz of R/O to every 2 G of tap water and the result is
between 6.4 and 6.6 Ph.
You might want to consider that if most of your fish come from Petsmart/Petco AND you live within 10 miles of them, your tap water
and the water in their tanks is likely the same Ph. Not that I would change anything right now/w that sick fish(and you also don't
know yet if the oto's are OK) but really, why so much R/O water percent ?
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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exactly why you said
to soften the water
the gh was outrageous, the ph was in the high 8's and all the fish I have like softer acidic water
I figure doing 50/50 will soften the water and be stable as long as I do the same mix every time

just doing 50/50 mix with no tannins or co2 it got my ph to neutral, with c0.2 somewhere around 6.6 - 6.7

I think what the problem was my heater
i Have no idea how long the old one has been broken for, it could just be a coincidence that the ember got sick the day I added the new heater
and what I was thinking is my old heater was not able to heat above 74f
idk if it thought the temp was higher when it was really just 74f o
or if 74 was the natural temp of the tank due to room temps and the heater wasnt actually doing anything atall ... idk. but whenever i would turn it on the light would come one for no more than 10 secs regardless how cold the tank was, then itd turn off. id turn the knob up on the heater to increase the temp. light comes one. 5 secs later its off and staying off with no change in water temps
I only recently noticed it
makes me think that at night the temps were dropping down. not forsure though. but i sleep with my window cracked and its freezing temps outside too so if that was the case i can see why they are so stressed
I hope with this new heater they will be ok

like you said since its only one gill on one fish its probably isnt a contaminant in the water like ammonia
or it'd effect all the fish right and both gills?
only other ember i saw with anything close was one with what seemed like a redish face
I couldn't tell if it was natural color or irritated though


anyways is there anything i can do in the meantime? i have been treating with melafix the past few days as I was told it would soothe the oto's skin and its an antibiotic , hopefully help them through w.e it is that makes them scrape
should I be doing something different?
maybe start using pimafix as well or stop using melafix all together and wait it out? now that I have a working heater?
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 09:31 AM
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I have a tendancy to want to "fix" everything and usually right now if not yesterday. Not knowing what the problem is and adding meds
that you don't know are right for the problem has caused me issues in my tanks before. Then too I guess if your fish have been in this
50/50 mix for some time they are more than accustomed to it. A contaminant would affect more than just one fish.
I would just do your regular water change tomorrow, stop using the meds but let the water changes remove what is left of them.
Try to remember this has been going on, not that you know exactly how long but long enough so that these fish would have developed
something by now if it was that bad. The fresh water will do them some good plus the new heater will keep the temp level for them.
After the W/C wait at least 24hrs to see how they are doing before you add more of whatever. Stabalizing the water temp and adding
fresh water IS doing something. So let it have a chance to work.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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and you are sure I should stop using melafix
i chose that med for the fact that I didn't know what the fish had, it is supposed to soothe skin and clean open wounds I cant imagine it is doing any harm
and judging by looks and behavior my oto's seem to have some mysterious illness that when unchecked deteriorates the skin on their heads (see thread > https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...05#post4865905)
I am a little scared to just see what happens
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 10:07 AM
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Are you saying that this disease which they have is from the cold water because of the broken heater ? I guess if
that's the case you might as well keep using the Melafix. Since I don't know anything about that med I can't say
one way or the other if it is doing anything you want it to. I have never heard of oto's being that active. Usually they
spend quite a bit of time just hanging on to the glass. And that is usually in a place where there is some current.
If you change some water you will need to add more of the med but try to go by the directions for that which I'm
sure are on the pack. Like you said it probably won't hurt them to continue to use it.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
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yes thats what I suspect
I cant find any other reason why this would all be happening
the oto's I noticed about 4-5 days ago
this tetra and the gil problem just happened today
I think their immune system finally broke down due to the bad heater
this heater literally wouldnt heat anything
again, I cant think of any other reason why other than they are fairly new fish. got them like... 3 weeks ago? something like that

2-3
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-21-2013, 01:53 PM
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I don't think the temps were a problem. I keep my house at about 72-74 degrees and my 125g and 75g tanks don't have heaters. The temps stay pretty stable at around 75 degrees. I have oto's, tetra's, ram's, angel's and have never had a problem with them being at those temps. I don't use CO2, my Ph stays right at 6.6-6.8 ,Kh is usually 1 and Gh is about 13-14.
The gill inflammation could be from a parasite, as could the flashing from the oto's. Possibly gill flukes, watch your other fish and see if they develop the same symptoms. Go to where you bought them and look in the tanks for fish showing the same signs.


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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-21-2013, 05:19 PM
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Is that an injury to the gill? My Colombian tetras get whacked now and then and lose scales over the gill. They usually grow back unless they take a shot to the unprotected gills and die. Kribs are usually the hitters.

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceranch View Post
Is that an injury to the gill? My Colombian tetras get whacked now and then and lose scales over the gill. They usually grow back unless they take a shot to the unprotected gills and die. Kribs are usually the hitters.
the only fish I have are kuhli loahces oto's and ember tetras
someone else also suggest that the fish in the pic was missing a gill plate
mine looks a lot like the pic but I cant see how it would lose its gill plate
I have literally no predators in there and all river rocks (rounded)
But I noticed today a second one may be showing signs of the same illness or w.e
weird thing is it is also on the left gill only that looks a bit too red, not as much as the initial tetra I posted about with the red swollen gil, but red enough to know it wasnt just the average "healthy blushing" gills are supposed to have
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadchevy View Post
I don't think the temps were a problem. I keep my house at about 72-74 degrees and my 125g and 75g tanks don't have heaters. The temps stay pretty stable at around 75 degrees. I have oto's, tetra's, ram's, angel's and have never had a problem with them being at those temps. I don't use CO2, my Ph stays right at 6.6-6.8 ,Kh is usually 1 and Gh is about 13-14.
The gill inflammation could be from a parasite, as could the flashing from the oto's. Possibly gill flukes, watch your other fish and see if they develop the same symptoms. Go to where you bought them and look in the tanks for fish showing the same signs.
that was 74 in the day with t5 lights over them and a covered top. that being said the nights had to be much much colder. and I would also not think twice if it was 74 or even a lil colder, but it wasnt steady 74 Im sure




anyways the ember's gil looks a bit better and the rest seem to have nice body color so I dont think they are stressed, one or two are pale but all the rest look fine
even the one with the bright red gill isnt pale so that kinda baffles me.
do fish have a certain organ that is only on the left side of the body near the gills that could be infected or something causing only the left gill to swell?
kinda like how humans only have a heart on the left side.





something that is really messing with my head tho is I am having trouble telling if my other ember's are getting the same thing with their gills or if they just have a natural healthy pink to them like all gills should have. Im having trouble telling the difference probably because I am on high alert due to my other fish, there may be nothing wrong with the rest I just cant tell.

the one who is sick now kind of just sprang out of no where. it was like one minute he was fine the next he had a red gil, idk how it could of happened so fast so what Im thinking is it happened over night, I didnt notice it the next morning, left to get the heater came back installed it THEN i finally noticed and associated his gill with the heater in my mind.
point is I want to believe the rest fo the fish are fine because if it was the same illness the original ember had it should of showed up in a similar amount of time. one two days right?


today I did the treatment with melafix for my oto's but only at half dose just in case the meds are irritating the embers gills since it is 1% oil
after more research think I am going to go back to full dosage or 75% at least
I added an extra airstone and now I am just waiting. to see how they all end up. I thought about just stopping the melafix all together but it seems to be helping the oto's I think. Since I fixed the initial problem (broken heater) I almost just wanna stop treating and see if they get better on their own, just not sure if that is smart.


one thing I have been thinking of past few days is when my heater broke down, i grabbed another old one from the closet and bleached it then rinsed it off thoroughly(at least I thought) and used it for the rest of that night, the next morning was the day I got the new heater AND saw the red gill.
could this be a chemical burn? and if so why did it not burn the entire school of fish?

since this originally happened ive done about 3 pwc's
one 25% and two 15%
IF this is a chemical burn should I add some carbon to the filter?
I haven't yet because f the meds I am using BUT like I asked previously if I shouldnt be treating with melafix anyways since there is a gil issue in my tank, I should probably add carbon forsure right?
just not sure if i should add it WHILE i am using the meds



ok done ranting, thanks to anyone who took the two yrs out of their life to read this post
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 11:09 AM
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Do you change water in this tank every week ? If you didn't clean the bleach off the heater it's not on there any more.
Skipping water changes will build up nitrates and other bad chemicals in there.
http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.p...rchMode=simple
Put what you have into here and see what water changes they recommend. If you have not been doing this every week then your
water is likely not very good. If this is the case, then 35% is not enough. The fish will not be healthy if the water is not.
In the beginning of this you said you "figured" that adding 50/50 water would...did you test for Ph/nitrites/nitrates ?
And have you tested the supply water for these things before you use it ? If you have no problems you might get by without
doing these things but not if there is a problem.
Start out with some good water in your tank and regulate the heater to keep it at least 76F and not lower.
And work from what you know it is and not from what you figure it might be. I wouldn't change that 50/50 right now though
because it may change the Ph enough to shock them.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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yea it shouldn't be playing any part in this at all, i keep the water stable. the 50/50 has nothing to do with the problem at hand or the quality of the water, idk if you are implying I should be using all tap or all RO but Idk how you are connecting the mix of water with the wc's, I add half distilled to soften the water not clean it, not sure if that is what you meant? I change the water every week, 25% taken out 25% put back in
the water I put back in is ALSO 50/50 of tap/pure water
the reason i do this is because my tap has a higher gh and kh than what my fish prefer, it has only been beneficial.

and like you said tap can have some nitrites ammonia and nitrate in it, among lots of other nasty things. so adding half distilled would only make things better, besides the the only one of those three that can be found in my water is 5ppm of nitrate
but the gh/ kh out of the tap havent changed once, therefore there should be 0 problems.
I only mentioned the distilled water because it related to something else
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