Not sure were to go now... - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-27-2004, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 435
Hey all,

I haven't been posting much recently, largely because of work and trying to figure out what's wrong with my tank.

Starting a couple weeks ago, my tetras starting dying off. I noticed that before they died, their color had faded and their fins had started rotting. I gathered it was Neon Tetra Disease.

About a week ago, I lost a couple more tetras and one of my German Blue Rams. Again, the Neons showed all symptoms of NTD as well as the Ram! On top of that, the Ram had a cyst on its mouth, it was so large I didn't know how I had missed it before.

Just a couple days ago, I lost a Panda Cory. It too exhibited the NTD symptoms. Pretty much all my Neons look weak/colorless. The remaining two Rams, Oto's, SAE's, and cories look all right.

I'm really at a loss of what to do. At first, I thought it had something to do with my water parameters. I did some tests but the water was fine. After the first couple deaths, I increased the weekly water change size from 25% to 40%, but it doesn't seem to be helping at all.

I finally read this article about a week ago: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/di...eondisease.htm . Is it true that there is no cure for NTD? If that's the case, what else can I do to keep all my fish from dying?

Thanks in advance...[/url]
aeternum23 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 01:03 AM
Doesn't like Kool-Aid
 
Momotaro's Avatar
 
PTrader: (52/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hawthorne, New Jersey
Posts: 10,125
I had a case of NTD.

How I would handle it depends on the size of the aquarium.

For a small aquarium, I would remove and quarantine the fish, tear down the aquarium and disinfect the tank, the filter and all of its parts. I would discard any wood. I would replace the substrate. Then I would set everything back up again. After two months of quarantine (two months with no losses) I would then introduce the fish.

On my aquarium (75G) I removed the fish, all of the fish. I added a UV sterilizer. I left the aquarium empty for two months (or was it longer, fortunately I don't remember). I reintroduced the surviving fish. I then added a school of NTD resistant Cardinal tetras.

You will get a lot of varying opinions on how to handle NTD. Don't necessarily choose the easiest course of action. choose the one you think will work best!

Mike

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Momotaro is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 01:06 AM
Ibn
Planted Tank VIP
 
Ibn's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,212
Yes, sadly, there is no completely effective way of treating this disease, although there has been some success with using furazolidone. Make sure that you isolate fish showing symptoms of this disease from healthy fish at all times and also during treatment (highly contagious). Even if the fish do eventually pull through, it may still carry the parasite. Fish which do not turn out for the better during treatment should be euthanized.

If you're gonna attempt treating it, here are the dosage for the furazolidone:

50-75 mg/kg fish
with food each day for 7-10 days

20 mg/liter
continuous bath for 5 days and may need repeating.

Good luck!
Ibn is offline  
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 435
Hey, thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it. My tank is 90 gallons and chock full of plants. I think I'm going to have to do the tank tear down . I can't believe this, I just got my CO2 tank and regulator in too! I'm guessing the teardown will require that I do away with the plants as well, correct?
aeternum23 is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 01:42 AM
Are these real?
 
Wasserpest's Avatar
 
PTrader: (195/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 15,636
You will have to carefully consider your approach. I know it seems like animals are so much more valuable than plants, but...

If all of your Neons are infected, and since it is a deadly disease, you will probably lose some or most of them anyway. I am not sure if Rams and Corys can die of NTD, there might be other things involved here too.

Anyway, what I am saying is: don't tear down the tank and throw out all plants. If you have a quarantine tank, you can separate the apparently sick fish. If not, I would leave things go its own way. Don't add any fish. Don't think about getting Neons ever again. Just wait it out. Focus on the plants, on your aquascape, fertilizers, CO2, light, etc. Have an eye on water parameters. Often fishies become more susceptible when they are under stress, which could be caused by many things. Water conditions being one factor.

I have a few times introduced sick fish to my tank (don't try that at home ) with ich and apparent fin rot, and not only didn't they infect any other fish, but got healthy pretty quick all by themselves. (On the other hand a while ago I lost a Ram that seemed healthy, but got thinner and thinner and finally disappeared completely). I am getting more daring now, until the lucky strike ends and my entire tank gets wiped out :hehe:

Adding an UV sterilizer might be a good idea...

Keep us updated... there are always some ideas floating around here.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Wasserpest is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 01:54 AM
Ibn
Planted Tank VIP
 
Ibn's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,212
Yes, unfortunately you're gonna have to do away with the plants as well :cry: . You're also gonna have to disinfect the tank and allow all the equipment to dry out.
Ibn is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 435
Thanks for the encouragement Wasser. I'm just really frustrated at this point with my tank. I did indeed check the parameters, many times. Everything is always zeroed out...including the NO3, even though I dose .

In any case, I thought about it during dinner and I agree, I shouldn't be so hasty. It's amazing how easily food and hunger can sway a man. Thanks for the help all.
aeternum23 is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 03:02 AM
Doesn't like Kool-Aid
 
Momotaro's Avatar
 
PTrader: (52/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hawthorne, New Jersey
Posts: 10,125
Quote:
I am not sure if Rams and Corys can die of NTD, there might be other things involved here too.
They can!!

Don't tear down, aeternum23.Your aquarium is too large. I would tear down a 10G or a 20G, but not a 90G Read my first post. Quarantine the fish for an extended period of time. Leave your 90G void of fish. I went under the idea that if there is no host for the parasite (NTD), after a period of time, the parasite will die. I added a UV sterilizer. if you can break loose the change, you might want to do the same. Just be patient while you wait out the disease in you 90G!

I have been there. I am not there anymore! It took some time, and some money, but I didn't have to tear anything down. Concentrate on your plants, and your lay out.

mike

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Momotaro is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 04:31 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Nordic's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 4,032
I think we should start a global petition against the selling of neon tetras, the world's biggest ornamental fish killer...

Cape Town, South Africa.

Hi. I'm back.
Nordic is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 435
Hehe, good idea Nordic.

Momotaro, I'm going to let things ride out and see what happens. Oh yea, and to add insult to injury, I found out I've been dosing my ferts improperly this whole time .

I used Chuck's Nutrient Calculator a while back to calculate my fert routine. Well, if you guys have used the Calculator before, you would have noticed an area to define your tank size, the default is 50 gallons. Well...I didn't notice *smacks head*. So basically, I've been dosing this whole time with ferts calculated for a 50 gallon tank . And I've been wondering this whole time why my test kit is showing 0-2.5 ppm NO3!
aeternum23 is offline  
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 07:27 AM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 644
Hey there,

Sorry to hear about this problem, but you might also consider testing your water for copper.

Copper can kill fish just as quickly as NTD and the symptoms can be almost the same. While it is most likely NTD I would thoroughly check everything, like copper and your chloromine levels in your tap water. Especially when they are in conjuction together, quick death.

I am assuming that you have not checked these as you said you checked your water parameters, however you did not say what you checked.

Therefore I would check every possible angle before going down the road of pulling down a large tank and I think that "M" is right using a UV steriliser.

Paul
rumples riot is offline  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-28-2004, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 435
Well I didn't get a Cu or NH2CL test kits because I use Amquel whenever I change the water. I forgot the exact type I'm using, but it did say that it removes, among other things, heavy metals and NH2CL.

But, I just checked out my water districts website for some info. As it turns out, the Cu in water straight out of the tap is at .17 ppm. I'm not sure if that's an issue, is it?
aeternum23 is offline  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-29-2004, 09:10 AM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 644
I don't know for certain and maybe someone say Rex would have a better idea than me.
rumples riot is offline  
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-29-2004, 12:12 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Rex Grigg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (65/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portland Orygun
Posts: 9,600
.17 ppm is toxic to most inverts and some fish. But I would guess that constant exposure to high levels of copper like that is going to weaken the immune system of your fish if it's not quickly toxic to them. You really need to get a copper test and test the water. Or take a sample to a reef shop and have them test it.
Rex Grigg is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 435
Just an update here...

I lost two more Neons since the start of February and one looks about ready to kick the bucket. The other fish appear OK and are growing.

Just curious, but is NTD one of those diseases that are always present in aquaria? If that's the case, then that means the Cu did indeed lead to the infection of my fish. I got my water tested and voila, .17 ppm Cu .
aeternum23 is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome