Two Pterophyllum Altum Juvies Purchased - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-21-2013, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
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Two Pterophyllum Altum Juvies Purchased

Good Evening,

I finally got my hands on two small Altum Juvies. I am trying my hand at it, but really trying my hardest here. I'm expecting the worst, but hoping for the best. They do seem like healthy buggers, but i know that can be deceiving.

Current tank parameters are the following:

Tank Size: 10 gallons ( for ease of use for manipulating water chemistry.)
pH 7.3
dGH 6~7
dKH 0
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
Temp - 83F
Location: Davis, CA.

RO/DI Water - not currently at my target of 0-4 dGH, but the tank will be moved down slowly since my supplier of the fish acclimated them over the period of a week to water ranging in the 7-8 dGH. I possess a functioning RO/DI unit. Peat is currently in the tank in a mesh bag.

Initial water change at time of introduction of 50% pure RO water to drive hardness down. My reason for this was the source water's dGH that was at a range of 7~8dGH.

I have also ordered Indian Almond Leaves which should arrive by saturday. I also have a peat in a fine mesh bag floating in the aquarium.

MEDICATION: I am began treatment of Levisomole and Kanamycin. I do not want to wait until the altums exhibit any health issues, because I feel any infection would have gripped too hard on their immune system already.

Temperature: I chose to keep the temperature at 83F, as opposed to higher because I was worried the dissolved O2 would drop too low during treatment for the unsubstantiated parasites/bacterial infection.

EATING: Also, I am unable to get them to eat. They are nibbling on live bloodworms, but we haven't seem them eat just yet. Supplier said they were eating frozen bloodworms readily, I believe with just 2 fish - the swarm mentality wont kick in to spur their appetite or action. Please kindly advise on how I can spur their appetite.

Please advise! I am sincerely trying to do everything right.

My Tank (Taped paper stimuli barriers to prevent them from being spooked too much)



Sourced stock



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Thank you,

Eric
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-21-2013, 05:41 PM
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I would not worry too much about the appetite. It took mine a week or two after introduction to go after anything at all. The skittishness also takes weeks to abate any.

If these are wild caught and your importer has only had them for a week, then parasites and related issues should be your top concern. Check out the TAS forum for threads on this subject and more.

http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/f...splay.php?f=16

As for water chemistry, I think that matching what they are accustomed to is the best plan. One problem with raising pH from their home waters is the disease vectors that exist in higher pHs that they have no defenses against, so in my case I raised it to my current 7.2 over many months. Good luck!

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-21-2013, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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I began an antibiotic and anti-parasitic regiment upon placing them in the tank. I wasn't going to wait for them to exhibit any symptoms.

They're on Kanamycn and Levisomole as we speak.

How are you fish doing? Any losses? I am able to keep Peru Altums successfully. Hopefully that means something for me. It seems my pH may be my weak link right now. I'm hoping the peat I added to the tank will gradually lower the tanks pH.

Here they are this morning.


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Last edited by lilhelper; 08-21-2013 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Added pH information
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-22-2013, 03:25 PM
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I used peat but it took Muriatic acid to really do the trick (depends on how much buffering is in your water). Here it is a year later and I am finally aging my water with zero acid added in so they are finally getting to live in my tap's pH.

You can read about using muriatic acid in threads on this forum. I added the acid into my aging barrel because the first day or two after adding acid the pH jumps down and up intolerably. Dosage is key; it is powerful stuff.

Are their tail fins somewhat clamped all the time? If so, they are still feeling stressed...

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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-22-2013, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfromstlouis View Post
I used peat but it took Muriatic acid to really do the trick (depends on how much buffering is in your water). Here it is a year later and I am finally aging my water with zero acid added in so they are finally getting to live in my tap's pH.

You can read about using muriatic acid in threads on this forum. I added the acid into my aging barrel because the first day or two after adding acid the pH jumps down and up intolerably. Dosage is key; it is powerful stuff.

Are their tail fins somewhat clamped all the time? If so, they are still feeling stressed...
There was a noticeable improvement yesterday over the previous day, and today over yesterday, in regards to their finnage and behaviour. I will be seeing them again tonight, so I will provide some images of them, then. Still not eating, but are nibbling which is better than nothing! We do have humic acid that we can add to hasten the descent to acidic water...I just don't want to do anything too quickly. They are being treated for disease/parasites they may or may not have, which can be stressful enough.

pH dropped by .3 pH units. I've learned these fish pretty much prefer living in tea. Haha!

I know how fickle they can be, so if they do perish I will not be surprised. Hoping for the best, expecting the worst.


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Last edited by lilhelper; 08-22-2013 at 05:41 PM. Reason: grammar
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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pH dropped to high 6's. I'm gonna lay off touching the water chemistry for a while to give them a break with all the stressful activity going on. Water is quite dark from all the tannin.

My indian almond leaves should be coming in today.


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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 10:03 PM
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ph is to high. even in the sellers tank. they looked stressed. u can tell by the clamp fins. if they are eating well. i recommend feeding them meaty foods to bulk them up so they regain strength. goodluck, and hope they survive.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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ph is to high. even in the sellers tank. they looked stressed. u can tell by the clamp fins. if they are eating well. I recommend feeding them meaty foods to bulk them up so they regain strength. goodluck, and hope they survive.
Definitely stressed. They aren't eating, but they are nibbling at food. I'm just worried that moving the pH down too much is going to push them over the edge.

Is there any way I can encourage them to actually eat? or would minimizing stress levels be the only way?


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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-24-2013, 12:07 AM
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Definitely stressed. They aren't eating, but they are nibbling at food. I'm just worried that moving the pH down too much is going to push them over the edge.

Is there any way I can encourage them to actually eat? or would minimizing stress levels be the only way?
slowly lower the ph. not eating is a bad sign. not eating and combination of meds will mess them up and weaken them. in my opinion, if they were fine theres no need to med them. but your main problem was buying from a seller that didnt have healthy altums to begin with.

altums have very weak immune systems. they live in low ph. and in that low ph. bacteria and fungus dont really grow at that low ph. so putting them in high ph will shock them and that invites all kinds of pathogens into their system that they are not used to. try getting live foods. blackworms/mosquito larvae/ brine shrimps/daphnia or other worms like grindal or micro worms.
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-24-2013, 03:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikonD70s View Post
slowly lower the ph. not eating is a bad sign. not eating and combination of meds will mess them up and weaken them. in my opinion, if they were fine theres no need to med them. but your main problem was buying from a seller that didnt have healthy altums to begin with.

altums have very weak immune systems. they live in low ph. and in that low ph. bacteria and fungus dont really grow at that low ph. so putting them in high ph will shock them and that invites all kinds of pathogens into their system that they are not used to. try getting live foods. blackworms/mosquito larvae/ brine shrimps/daphnia or other worms like grindal or micro worms.
Great news! I came home to find their colors darkened, swimming much more actively and they're munching on the bloodworms I throw in. They're assuming a more normal behavior indicative of my peruvian scalare angels.

I also bought them some pieces of branchwood to help leach the tannins further. They love it too.

dKH is 3
dGH is 6
pH is 6.5
Ammonia is 0
Nitrite is 0
Nitrate is 0

Kanamycin is still being ran in the tank along with levisomole.

I was fortunate enough to read quite a bit of articles on Finarama. I saw mixed advice on usage of medicines when first getting altums. Some claiming that treating immediately is better, others that didn't recommend treating until seeing symptoms. Because collumnaris is essentially the bane of Altums, I chose to take the risk to kill any infections before they had time to take hold to already weak fish. Even if it meant dead fish.

I'm very excited they're eating. This tells me their bodies are gaining much needed energy to further their acclimation process. However, I'm still expecting the worst, and hoping for the best. Altums are heart breakers.

http://youtu.be/UaSfGtHZMh4


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Last edited by lilhelper; 08-24-2013 at 04:03 AM. Reason: Extra Info.
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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 03:58 AM Thread Starter
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Water is 6.0 pH
gh is 7 (raised due to kanamcyin)
kh is 2
temp is constant 85F+/-


Fish are eating and acting much more relaxed as the days go by. Water change today was 20%.

This looks to be a successful dive into the altum world. 1 week down, 3 to go.


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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 04:05 AM
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awesome. Good luck!


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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 04:28 AM
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Very good news! All the best luck with them.


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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 06:23 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all! I've had them nearly a week. Hopefully they survive.


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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 04:10 PM
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The video is encouraging. What is your water change regime?

My altum tank gets 25% twice per week.

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