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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 04:11 AM Thread Starter
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"Liquid CO2"

The LFS people suggested that I try a store bought form of Co2. Is this Excel? Lack of knowledge here so excuse me.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 04:13 AM
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There is no liquid form of CO2.

Excel is a liquid form of carbon and is most likely what they're talking about. =)
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 04:17 AM
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don't listen to any advice from an LPS ever.
use search and read up here on PTF,
then you can ask informed questions.



best to keep your 75gal low tech until you
can afford the $300 for compressed Co2.


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 12:48 PM
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There is too a liquid form of CO2. I have three cylinders of it here in the house. Of course it's all at 800 PSI in a seamless cylinder.

Excel is a CO2 substitute. For a 75 gallon tank it will get expensive real quick. Just get a pressurized system.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 05:35 PM
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x2 Rex's cost statement.
Dousing 75 gal of highly planted tank will add up REAL fast.
you will have to douse at least 7.5 ml every other day. and 2X that once a week. a 250ml bottle will last you only a few weeks.
I'm doing that + 2 other tanks with excel. and I go thru 250ml in about 2 weeks. If liquid is the way to go for you I would seek out a different source of the main ingrediant of Excel.
Otherwise Pressurized is the way to go for the long run.


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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 06:05 PM
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If liquid is the way to go for you I would seek out a different source of the main ingrediant of Excel.
Excel is the only product on the market that has what it has (I believe..). A chemist from Seachem was one of the keynote speakers at the AGA convention and he gave a little insight into what is in it. Pretty cool stuff - it is basically one of the intermediate carbon compounds that are produced during photosynthesis. He also had a fantastic idea for a PHD project - see if the plants are using it straight up or if they are breaking it apart before using the carbon. He said you could do this by attaching some tracer to the carbons? I'm going to be buying the convention DVD, so I'll watch it again and give you more specifics if you're interested.


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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JenThePlantGeek View Post
Excel is the only product on the market that has what it has (I believe..). A chemist from Seachem was one of the keynote speakers at the AGA convention and he gave a little insight into what is in it. Pretty cool stuff - it is basically one of the intermediate carbon compounds that are produced during photosynthesis. He also had a fantastic idea for a PHD project - see if the plants are using it straight up or if they are breaking it apart before using the carbon. He said you could do this by attaching some tracer to the carbons? I'm going to be buying the convention DVD, so I'll watch it again and give you more specifics if you're interested.

You basically use a "labelled carbon", ie: radioactive label or fluorescent label. One (or more) the carbon atoms in the intermediate compound will have this label. Then you can analyze the end-products as well as other intermediate products to see where the labelled carbons are...from this (I'm simplifying a lot of things here) you can tell whether the compound was taken up as a whole and integrated into the plant's structure, or if it was broken up into smaller cpounds before being incorporated.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by masYPSI View Post
The LFS people suggested that I try a store bought form of Co2. Is this Excel? Lack of knowledge here so excuse me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg View Post
There is too a liquid form of CO2. I have three cylinders of it here in the house. Of course it's all at 800 PSI in a seamless cylinder.
lol, I meant that there really isn't a LFS store-bought form of liquid CO2. You know what I meant. =P
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacksunshine View Post
x2 Rex's cost statement.
Dousing 75 gal of highly planted tank will add up REAL fast.
you will have to douse at least 7.5 ml every other day. and 2X that once a week. a 250ml bottle will last you only a few weeks.
I'm doing that + 2 other tanks with excel. and I go thru 250ml in about 2 weeks. If liquid is the way to go for you I would seek out a different source of the main ingrediant of Excel.
Otherwise Pressurized is the way to go for the long run.
Not sure why you are even considering buying 250ml bottles for a 75, unless your in some foreign country that you cant buy the stuff online. A 4L bottle will last a 75G probably well over a year at the recomended dosage and costs $38 at big als and a few bucks for shipping if your in the USA. IMO thats a whole lot cheaper than pressurized CO2. But its not all about cost, co2 gass is arguably better, and with Excell you'll need to be dosing atleast every other day or so and thats a hassle. Co2 is pretty much set it and forget it. I have both a pressurized setup and a tank that is excel only.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 07:12 AM Thread Starter
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At what point is it no longer Low-tech. Cause thats what I shooting for. I Think I BBA and everyone seems to say that first its a lack of CO2 and then ferts. Thats the reason for Excel. I am planing on getting more plants, as I don't have enough. Only been planted for about 6-7 days.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 06:38 PM
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Not sure why you are even considering buying 250ml bottles for a 75, unless your in some foreign country that you cant buy the stuff online. A 4L bottle will last a 75G probably well over a year at the recomended dosage and costs $38 at big als and a few bucks for shipping if your in the USA. IMO thats a whole lot cheaper than pressurized CO2. But its not all about cost, co2 gass is arguably better, and with Excell you'll need to be dosing atleast every other day or so and thats a hassle. Co2 is pretty much set it and forget it. I have both a pressurized setup and a tank that is excel only.
It was simply an example. With a commonly found bottle size you would get at your LFS. At any rate it would still be consumed pretty quickly. And reccomended dosage is kinda light IMO.


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 08:28 PM
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No prob, just that people often say how expensive it would be to dose Excel for carbon, and it really isnt. It is so much cheaper to buy it in the 4L bottles from a good cheap online seller (I dont buy hardly anything from the lfs anymore). I have a 45G that I am currently dosing excell at 1.5X the daily amount either every day or every other day. When I calculated it out last I foget exactly, but think it worked out to be around a 2-year supply.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 09:53 PM
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There is no better way to alleviate algae issues better than c02...Pretty easy, if ya see algae, the plants are not growing as fast as they should be. Turn up the c02 an the. plants just get in the grow nuts mode, an out compete the algae, as long as the nutrients are there.

If you are wanting low tech, lighting should be kept low. I see you have 2.25 wpg. If ya dint run them but 6-8 hours, have a light fish load, an feed sparingly, you should be OK dosing flourish excel. Anubias, ferns, moss, hygro, wisteria, hydrocoytle, ludwiga, an a few other low maintenance plants would do ya good...

I would get as much wisteria as I could get my hands on an start with that as well as others I have mentioned. Stuff the tank full of plants an let em grow with the excel dosing. You will then get a feel for what is growing, an what is not. The plants that are lacking you can pull, an rely on the ones that are doing just fine. You will get a feel for the tank after a few months.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 09:55 PM
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maybe liquid CO2=club soda hahaha.


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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-17-2006, 05:01 PM
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maybe liquid CO2=club soda hahaha.
PPM might be a tad high on that
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