Need help setting up fertilization routine? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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First let me give the details of my setup:
-58gal tank (46 actual gallons when running)
-150watt HQI Giessmann Nova II Pendant (5200K)
-3"to 6" Eco-Complete substrate
-Dupla cable heating system
-Ehiem 2126 Canister filter
-Fully Automated Pressurized CO2 system
-Using R.O.\D.I. water exclusivley adjusted to 4GH with Seachem Equilibrium and 4KH with SeaChem Alkalinity buffer

The tank has been setup for 10 days and has had contained plants for 7 days. I'm currently using the following fertilization products:

Flourish 1.5ml daily
Flourish Potassium 2ml daily
Flourish Trace 5ml daily
Flourish Nitrogen 1ml daily
Flourish Phosphorus 1ml daily

When I intially setup the tank my KH was 4 and my GH was 4. I justed tested it again yesterday and my GH was 13 and my KH was 10?

How could this happen?

Please help me figure out a proper fertilization routine using Seachem products.

Thanks in advance for the help. :?:
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 04:46 PM
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Something in the tank is raising the hardness. Do you have any rocks or shells in the tank? Did you use anything in the substrate besides the Eco-Complete? And why do you feel the need to use RO water? IMHO Flourish trace is tap water. Flourish Potassium is very expensive to use on a larger tank. You would need to add 50 to get your tank up to the bottom end of the recommended range. Are you testing for nitrates and phosphates?
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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I'm using all Eco-Complete substrate. I using my R.O.\D.I. since my local tap water is extremely hard. The water coming out of the R.O.\D.I. tests at 0GH and 0KH. The only thing I could think of is that one of the Seachem fertilizers I'm using is raising my GH and KH. I'm baffled.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 08:02 PM
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The Seachem stuff won't raise it at all. And with the small amounts you are dosing not a chance. It must be the Eco-Complete. I was not aware that it buffers the water though. And I can't seem to find the info on their web site.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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I'm doing a 50% water change this weekend and am going to try adding non buffered R.O.\D.I. water and see what the initial GH and KH reading is. Then I will keep a daily log of the GH and KH to see if any trends arise.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
is also Nitrate and carbonate free which will not increase pH or carbonate hardness
Has anyone experienced the opposite? I use 100% R/O water and my KH and GH are at 7 without adding anything to the water. Maybe you can do a test. Put the R/O water in a glass with some eco complete and test the water. I don't have the label anymore, but I thought the bag said eco complete buffered the water.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 08:41 PM
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http://www.marinedepot.com/a_cr_ss_caribsea.asp
scroll down, I think that is what reads on the back of the package. I could understand the GH from the calcium and mg?
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-06-2003, 01:08 AM
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Ok, so they say it doesn't affect kH or gH. Hmm...... I wish I had some that was not already in a tank. I have to increase my kH and gH as they are pretty much 0/0 out of the tap.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-06-2003, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resplendens
When I intially setup the tank my KH was 4 and my GH was 4. I justed tested it again yesterday and my GH was 13 and my KH was 10?

How could this happen?
This may sound dumb... but when you replace the water that evaporates from the tank, do you use untreated RO, treated RO or tap water?

Any water that evaporates will leave all its minerals behind in the water that remains. It's almost unavoidable to have the tank hardness increase some over time due to this (especially for those who's only choice for replacement water is tap water)... partial water changes help a lot but cannot return the hardness readings to exactly what they were unless some of the "water change" water is, from time to time, mostly untreated RO.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-06-2003, 01:07 PM
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-Using R.O.\D.I. water exclusivley adjusted to 4GH with Seachem Equilibrium and 4KH with SeaChem Alkalinity buffer

The tank has been setup for 10 days and has had contained plants for 7 days. I'm currently using the following fertilization products:

Flourish 1.5ml daily
Flourish Potassium 2ml daily
Flourish Trace 5ml daily
Flourish Nitrogen 1ml daily
Flourish Phosphorus 1ml daily

When I intially setup the tank my KH was 4 and my GH was 4. I justed tested it again yesterday and my GH was 13 and my KH was 10?
I can tell you for a fact that Eco-Complete dont buffer water, its been personally tested.

It might be just a small oversight in your tests because I see that you are adjusting your R/O water to the levels you want and "when" you test it is important, I have found that after adjusting anything the true readings wont come out for hours minimum so maybe the readings you took initially to come up with your "ideal" parameters were not 100% yet so they were still climbing.
The tank is only 10 days old so you are going to see many changes and fluctuations which will be normal, it shouldnt be that much in the GH/KH but all else will. I still think it was a testing error somehow because it does not seem that you have anything buffering the water.
It takes time to get it stable.

I would also get some scrub pads ready for the algae that you may soon see starting. You are fertilizing that tank IMO what I think is way too soon , even at those small amounts.
Newly added plants will normally go through a stage where they simply "acclimate" and feed off stored energy. I have had more success with new tanks when I wait as long as the plants will allow me before I start fertilizing.
Give the tank a few weeks and and keep an eye on the water parameters every couple a days and you will start to see a pattern.
Same applies to your plants, they can tell you a lot about whats going on as well...

Keep us posted, I am curious as to the GH/KH swings...
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2003, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the help and suggestions. On Saturday I did a 50% water change with strait, non adjusted R.O.\D.I. water. I checked the KH and the GH of the R.O.\D.I. water. Each was zero. I also checked the TDS which read 1ppm. I did the water change and checked the KH and GH about 2 hours later. Each read 7. I also have cut my fertilization routine in half. Here is my intitial planting: Bacopa carolina, Limnophila sesiliflora, Mayaca fluviatilis, Vallisneria gigantea, Nymphaea zenkeri and Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae. The Limnophila sesiliflora has grown like crazy. Has over tripled it's original mass and height. The Bacopa carolina has doubled it's height. The Mayaca fluviatilis has doubled it's original size but is starting to get coverd by brown algae and green thread algea. Same with the Vallisneria gigantea. I did originally have some Anubias nana but lost them do to the some sort of fungus that appeard to envelope the plants Rhizome thus disintigrating the plant. The Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae appears to have not grown at all. I am starting to get alot of green thread algae as well and brown algae. I added some 8 Otocinclus and 4 True Siamese Algae Eaters to try and combat the algea.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-12-2003, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resplendens
Please help me figure out a proper fertilization routine using Seachem products.

:?:
The attached word file was taken from a seachem flyer for their products for a planted aquarium. They seem pretty excessive and I have modified my dosages somewhat with good results. But, my plants have grown sooo fast with these dosages. I used them on a 20 gal, Hagen CO2 and 3.25 w/g light set up.
Good luck. Btw, I had my KH actually drop 1 degree after dosing as the above for 2 weeks (can't explain...dunno).
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-12-2003, 07:15 PM
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ok, I am attachment challenged...so here is the dosing that they recommend. It didn't give any aquarium parameters (watts/gallon, density of plants, etc).

Day 1; Flourish=1ml / 25gal, Flourish Excel=5ml / 50gal, Flourish Iron=5 ml / 50gal, Flourish Phosphorus=0.5-1.0 ml / 20gal, dd

Day 2; Flourish Trace=5ml / 20gal, Flourish Excel=5ml / 10gal, Flourish Iron=5ml / 50gal

Day 3; Flourish Potassium=5ml / 50gal, Flourish Excel=5ml / 10gal, Flourish Iron=5ml / 50gal

Day 4; Flourish Trace=5ml / 20gal, Flourish Excel=5ml / 10gal, Flourish Iron=5ml / 50gal, Flourish Phosphorus=5ml / 50gal, Flourish Nitrogen=0.5-1.0 ml / 20gal

Day 5; Flourish Potassium=0.5-1.0ml / 20gal, Flourish Excel=5ml / 10gal, Flourish Iron=5ml / 50gal

Day 6; Flourish=1ml / 25gal, Flourish Excel=5ml / 10gal, Flourish Iron=5ml / 50gal

Day 7; 5% water change
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-13-2003, 12:57 AM
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For a low to mid light tank those are not bad. But the potassium dosing is way to low. And IMHO Flourish Trace is basically tap water.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2003, 07:04 PM
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I have spoke with Seachem many times as I have set uo my tank 4 weeks ago. They say to go slooow when starting to fertiliize. They also do no trecommend using Nitrogen or Phosphate as you can get that from your fish and feeding.

Ken

By the way, my water sucks and i use RO/DI with Seachem Equilibrium and Alkaline buffer and am happy with the results. Maybe you tested the water incorectly as I dont see how your GK and KH could skyrocket like that.
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