Fertilizer dosing woes.....KCl is it good? - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 06:11 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
sigh hi all. i've been dosing my plant tanks with KCl...you see, i noticed pin holes in my old leaves of hygro polysperma and so i dosed with KCl, i read on the forums that it is impossible to overdose with potassium....but when i had a couple millimeters of this solution i made based on chuck gadd's calculator, i end up with distorted new leaf growth (which looks like calcium deficiency) and i hear that if you dose too much potassium..it affects uptake of calcium.... is that true? or is the problem with Cl from KCl???

i must get this fertilizer dosing right because my new leaves on my pearlweed are growing in white!!! and my rotala rotundifolia leaves are yellow on the edges....sigh......can anyone help???
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 07:59 AM
2la
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 993
Chloride isn't harmful. Help us out--how much KCl are you dosing and how often?
2la is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 07:36 PM
Are these real?
 
Wasserpest's Avatar
 
PTrader: (195/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 15,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubbahehe
i must get this fertilizer dosing right because my new leaves on my pearlweed are growing in white!!! and my rotala rotundifolia leaves are yellow on the edges....sigh......can anyone help???
How hard is your water? What is your NO3 level? Do you dose traces/iron? Watts/gal? CO2? What else are you dosing besides KCl? A couple of millimeters?? Darn metrics. :mrgreen:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Wasserpest is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 07:53 PM
Planted Member
 
hypsophrys's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2la
Chloride isn't harmful. Help us out--how much KCl are you dosing and how often?
Some of those dissociated Cl- ions are going to bond to something, right?

Ca2+ + 2Cl- --> CaCl2 is a possibility, I think. Or maybe the Cl- would remain indefinitely dissociated? I guess it depends on concentration?

More questions than answers, sorry.
hypsophrys is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasserpest
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubbahehe
i must get this fertilizer dosing right because my new leaves on my pearlweed are growing in white!!! and my rotala rotundifolia leaves are yellow on the edges....sigh......can anyone help???
How hard is your water? What is your NO3 level? Do you dose traces/iron? Watts/gal? CO2? What else are you dosing besides KCl? A couple of millimeters?? Darn metrics. :mrgreen:
hi all, my water is 8-10 KH, 8-10 GH, my NO3 level is low, I do not dose traces or iron, but feed very heavily. i have approx 2.5 watts per gallon with DIY CO2, Yes with the KCl I'm only dosing several ml...not a lot.... i'm thinking the white growth is because of my low nitrates...but i'm afraid of adding more because I don't want to lose my fish.

in my 10 G without CO2, and 3 watts per gallon, everything is so stable. I'll put my "white" plants in that tank and they green up ....granted, they grow slower,....but they look nicer though.
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2la
Chloride isn't harmful. Help us out--how much KCl are you dosing and how often?
hi 2la, this was the first time i dosed KCl in this tank. i had to cuz i have pinholes in my green hygro....no other plants showed the pinholes...but as soon as i did...my ludwigia repens had stunted growth along with my rotala and my hygro...
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 09:08 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 155
I've had this problem too, whitened leaves, much space between the leaves, no red in the rotala...After i got the tip from Wasserpest to increase CO2, i've placed an extra Sugar/Yeast bottle. Now the plants are doing better, but something in me said that this problem has to deal with the Alcohol gasses coming from the suger/yeast mixture (maybe another topic question, or just a stupid statement ...:?)
Knetter is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 09:09 PM
Are these real?
 
Wasserpest's Avatar
 
PTrader: (195/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 15,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubbahehe
hi all, my water is 8-10 KH, 8-10 GH, my NO3 level is low, I do not dose traces or iron, but feed very heavily. i have approx 2.5 watts per gallon with DIY CO2, Yes with the KCl I'm only dosing several ml...not a lot.... i'm thinking the white growth is because of my low nitrates...but i'm afraid of adding more because I don't want to lose my fish.
Don't understand... your NO3 is "low" (More specific? How low is it in your 10g tank?) which you and I think might cause the white growth, and you are afraid to add because you don't want to loose your fish? Fishes should be very happy with NO3 levels up to 20 ppm, and if you aim for 5 to 10 ppm both fish and plants should do great! So depending on how low your low is, I would suggest a little KNO3. Also a bottle of Flourish and another one of Flourish Iron should go a long way to improved plant health. I severely underdose my tanks with those traces, but I wouldn't rely completely on fish food to supply everything that Flourish has and your tapwater lacks. With the hardness of your water I doubt that you have Calcium deficiencies, and would look first at NO3, Iron and traces.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Wasserpest is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasserpest
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubbahehe
hi all, my water is 8-10 KH, 8-10 GH, my NO3 level is low, I do not dose traces or iron, but feed very heavily. i have approx 2.5 watts per gallon with DIY CO2, Yes with the KCl I'm only dosing several ml...not a lot.... i'm thinking the white growth is because of my low nitrates...but i'm afraid of adding more because I don't want to lose my fish.
Don't understand... your NO3 is "low" (More specific? How low is it in your 10g tank?) which you and I think might cause the white growth, and you are afraid to add because you don't want to loose your fish? Fishes should be very happy with NO3 levels up to 20 ppm, and if you aim for 5 to 10 ppm both fish and plants should do great! So depending on how low your low is, I would suggest a little KNO3. Also a bottle of Flourish and another one of Flourish Iron should go a long way to improved plant health. I severely underdose my tanks with those traces, but I wouldn't rely completely on fish food to supply everything that Flourish has and your tapwater lacks. With the hardness of your water I doubt that you have Calcium deficiencies, and would look first at NO3, Iron and traces.
Hi Wasserpest, I'm only guessing my nitrate is low because I do not have a test kit. I think it is low because my parrot's feather is red, and my didiplis diandra is red at the tips also. I read on this forum that redness in plants is due to low nitrates. Funny, all the books say didiplis diandra is difficult...or harder than other plants...yet it is the one plant that is flourishing in my tank....it's doing even better than supposed easier plants like rotala rotundifolia....ludwigia repens, ..... funny...

anyway, looks like i'm going to be dosing nitrates now. Thanks for letting me know that they can tolerate up to 20 ppm. I did not know that before...you know when you go test your water at petsmart or petco, they tell you if you have nitrates, do a water change....so i was always worried about my nitrates being too high.

Wasserpest, so you underdose. is there a reason for that? did you have a bad experience with overdosing ?? or just to be on the safe side?

Thanks again to all for your replies...
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-01-2003, 12:49 AM
Are these real?
 
Wasserpest's Avatar
 
PTrader: (195/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 15,634
In my opinion, a NO3 test is indispensable for a planted tank. It's the only test I am using on a regular basis :mrgreen: If that convinces you, see if you can get a Red Sea Nitrate test kit, this is the one I use and like, rather than others that are sold at pet stores and are fairly useless in the lower range that we are interested in.

In LFS they deal with the average fish keeper, who in this country has an overstocked tank with pink ornaments, blue gravel and a few plastic plants. Without water changes, NO3 just builds up in such tanks. Now in a heavily planted tank, NO3 is used by plants, and often needs to be added to keep it above zero. I wouldn't be surprised if you would measure zero nitrates. That makes red plants grow red and green plants grow white.

So after you have your test kit, you should try to get your tank to 5-10 ppm NO3. If you have algae problems, you might get a PO4 test kit along with the NO3 one to try for a 10:1 ratio of NO3 to PO4, which has found to be most beneficial to plants and least beneficial to algae. I personally don't worry about PO4, I know my water is shockfull of it, and apparently my plants like it that way.

Why do I underdose? The usual recommendations found here and on bottles are some kind of optimum dosage. I consider my tanks low to medium light, CO2 and ferts. Contrary to high light, pressurized CO2, and loads of ferts, this gives my slower plant growth, more stability, and the electricity meter doesn't spin as fast.

Also, I don't want to do the widely recommended weekly 50% water changes. I change 15-20% weekly in my 100 gal tank. If I used full doses I would be worried about buildup of some elements. Dosing ridiculously small amounts is still much better than dosing zilch. Traces are not needed in large amounts, so I figure if I dose 25% of the recommended amount of Flourish this will not be "optimal", but it works for most of my plants in my tanks.

Any of my statements might be totally useless or incorrect for you... take 'em all with a grain of salt and pepper :mrgreen:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Wasserpest is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-01-2003, 05:20 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasserpest
In my opinion, a NO3 test is indispensable for a planted tank. It's the only test I am using on a regular basis :mrgreen: If that convinces you, see if you can get a Red Sea Nitrate test kit, this is the one I use and like, rather than others that are sold at pet stores and are fairly useless in the lower range that we are interested in.

In LFS they deal with the average fish keeper, who in this country has an overstocked tank with pink ornaments, blue gravel and a few plastic plants. Without water changes, NO3 just builds up in such tanks. Now in a heavily planted tank, NO3 is used by plants, and often needs to be added to keep it above zero. I wouldn't be surprised if you would measure zero nitrates. That makes red plants grow red and green plants grow white.

So after you have your test kit, you should try to get your tank to 5-10 ppm NO3. If you have algae problems, you might get a PO4 test kit along with the NO3 one to try for a 10:1 ratio of NO3 to PO4, which has found to be most beneficial to plants and least beneficial to algae. I personally don't worry about PO4, I know my water is shockfull of it, and apparently my plants like it that way.

Why do I underdose? The usual recommendations found here and on bottles are some kind of optimum dosage. I consider my tanks low to medium light, CO2 and ferts. Contrary to high light, pressurized CO2, and loads of ferts, this gives my slower plant growth, more stability, and the electricity meter doesn't spin as fast.

Also, I don't want to do the widely recommended weekly 50% water changes. I change 15-20% weekly in my 100 gal tank. If I used full doses I would be worried about buildup of some elements. Dosing ridiculously small amounts is still much better than dosing zilch. Traces are not needed in large amounts, so I figure if I dose 25% of the recommended amount of Flourish this will not be "optimal", but it works for most of my plants in my tanks.

Any of my statements might be totally useless or incorrect for you... take 'em all with a grain of salt and pepper :mrgreen:
Wasserpest, I agree with everything you've posted. Thanks for confirming my suspicions and for teaching me some new info. You've been a big help. So I went to the Wal-Mart and I found "Green Light Stump Remover" which I've read somewhere that it is all Nitrate. However, when i looked at the label...it had a weird organic chemistry compound name (if you will).... and it was nothing close to "Nitrate" on the bottle. So i didn't want to buy it....but i was wondering does anyone know if that's the right one? oh, come to think of it...wasserpest, what do you use to dose nitrate?

oh by the way, my friend got your plants...they are niiiiiiice... the sunset hygro is one of the most beautiful noxious weeds i've ever seen!
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-01-2003, 12:51 PM
Are these real?
 
Wasserpest's Avatar
 
PTrader: (195/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 15,634
You need to be careful with the stump removers. They MIGHT contain things that are highly poisonous to a fish tank. If in doubt, don't use them and get some pure KNO3 via the web, like @ Litemanu.com. I am using "Spectracide" stump remover from Walmart and that seems to work for me, but again, I might just have gotten lucky. Perhaps if someone orders a larger quantity we can exchange some white powder, in addition to noxious weeds :lol:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Wasserpest is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-02-2003, 02:00 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Rex Grigg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (65/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portland Orygun
Posts: 9,600
The Wal-Mart stores here carry a liquid stump remover that IS NOT KNO3. There are a couple of places on the web where you can get pure KNO3 at prices cheaper than stump remover. You can also get K2SO4, KH2PO4 and Plantex CSM at a couple of these places and that pretty much takes care of your planted tank nutrient needs. I split out 70 lbs of Plantex, 200 lbs of K2SO4 and 100 lbs of KNO3 this year. And I'm really not interested in doing so again.
Rex Grigg is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 07:29 AM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg
There are a couple of places on the web where you can get pure KNO3 at prices cheaper than stump remover.
Yeah, but don't forget those essential far infrared photon waves and some electromagnetic energy! :twisted: We don't want to get our water molecules in a wad! (I just read your website.)
lanstar is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 07:42 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Nordic's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 4,032
Can't wait to see the reaction at the post office when you start mailing white powder to each other...

Cape Town, South Africa.

Hi. I'm back.
Nordic is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
millennium 3000 filters any good? LaZy_JoKeR Equipment 1 09-25-2004 06:49 PM
Planted Tank Chat Transcripts! KyleT General Planted Tank Discussion 0 02-26-2004 09:20 PM
Dosing fertilizer with eco-complete as substrate law Substrate 8 02-17-2004 01:02 AM
Fish pond gunk....good fertilizer? SaM dA MaN General Planted Tank Discussion 6 10-17-2003 11:38 PM
Good fertilizer ANUBA General Planted Tank Discussion 2 06-30-2003 12:48 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome