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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Discussion: Premium Equipment & Supplies

Would Takashi Amano, Oliver Knott, & ADG (just to name a few) be able to achieve their magnificent aquascapes without their premium equipment (lights, filter, co2) & supplies (substrate, ferts, flora + fauna, hardscape)?

discuss.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 10:27 PM
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IMO: Yes, but it would require a lot more time. I think they all have a good grip on the astetics on how to set a tank up, but I don't think that they would be able to do it with nearly as much ease if they didn't have every possible top of the line material to use. I don't think they would be able to maintain as many tanks as quickly and in as good a condition as they do. Now, I still have the upmost respect for them, but I would like to see them sometime work with lesser materials just to see what they could do with them.

This should be an interesting discussion BTW.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaboy1021
Would Takashi Amano, Oliver Knott, & ADG (just to name a few) be able to achieve their magnificent aquascapes without their premium equipment (lights, filter, co2) & supplies (substrate, ferts, flora + fauna, hardscape)?

discuss.
Not to offend anyone but I have never been that impressed with Oliver Knott's aquascapes.

That said, sure they could accomplish the same thing without the fancy stuff. I think they use that stuff because it makes their job easier.

Regards,
Barry
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaboy1021
Would Takashi Amano, Oliver Knott, & ADG (just to name a few) be able to achieve their magnificent aquascapes without their premium equipment (lights, filter, co2) & supplies (substrate, ferts, flora + fauna, hardscape)?
Yes.

Besides their obvious expertice, knowing how to take a magnificient photo has lots to do with it.

Light is light, CO2 is CO2, and nutrients are nutrients. They might be differently packaged, but that doesn't necessarily translates into a magnificient aquascape.


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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fosty
IMO: Yes, but it would require a lot more time.
i think that sums up my say on this topic. they can do it, but it would just be less efficient. ex, if they didnt have high grade plants (ie. tropica) to work with, they'd have to pretty much nurse their own plants before they can use them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasserpest
Yes.


Light is light, CO2 is CO2, and nutrients are nutrients. They might be differently packaged, but that doesn't necessarily translates into a magnificient aquascape.
i am on the fence with this one. we are not talking about the "raw" equipment/supplies here. we are talking about the finished manufactured products they use. i know NPK is NPK, but compare let's say the Flourish line against ADA line. there is a difference in content (might have some of the same raw ingredients, but different amounts, etc).

if professionals ever used NO tubes for lighting, it just wont be efficient, not to mention they probablyy wont be able to fit the amount of lighting they want over the footprint of the tank.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 11:11 PM
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Well, looking at Amano-san's descriptions in Nature Aquarium World he created some wonderful tanks with pretty regular NO fluorescent lights and wattages!


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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 11:20 PM
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Am I the only person that finds it rather strange that ADA neither makes nor does Amano use PC bulbs? They seem to only use MH and NO.

In college....so no aquariums for a while.....
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2006, 03:26 AM
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I think the look is nice of the ADA tanks and the product line.
The tanks are actually quite cheap compared to custom or special order items.

The substrate is also cheap/cheapeer than/as Flourite and cheaper than FB or EC.

Some item are clearly pricy and most might not use them.

But a nice looking light, nice looking tank and nice substrate are worthwhile items to have nice looking tank.

Maybe you folks don';t care about gangly looking equipment and stands/hoods, and other external things about your tanks, I sure do though, so do most spouses....

A nice display looks nice when the rest of the place also looks good, and the tank is placed well in a home etc.

It's not just about what is inside the box.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2006, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain
It's not just about what is inside the box.
True, no doubt about it... but the question asked was if they need premium equipment to create a magnificient aquascape.


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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2006, 04:20 AM
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You can achieve a scape w/o those stuff, basically set the tank outside and the ambient light along with water changes weekly could do something that effective. But again, it'd take quite a while for everything to grow in.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-04-2006, 09:27 PM
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The substrate is also cheap/cheapeer than/as Flourite and cheaper than FB or EC.
I'm not sure about this. I paid $13 for enough Flourite for my 10 gallon and when I priced it out I think I remember Aquasoil to be $26 (w/o Powersand). Not that I'm trying to say Flourite is better by any means , but I'm pretty sure its cheaper.

Quote:
Maybe you folks don';t care about gangly looking equipment and stands/hoods, and other external things about your tanks, I sure do though, so do most spouses....

A nice display looks nice when the rest of the place also looks good, and the tank is placed well in a home etc.
I agree 100%. I wish my equipment wasn't gangly looking. Thats also why I think many of the Aquascaping "Professionals" tanks come off looking so great. All the tanks that I've seen pictures of from them look amazing in the homes or offices they are set-up in.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-05-2006, 02:22 AM
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I couldn't agree more, Tom~
That is what is taking so much time for me. I am working it out as to not see tubes, wires, gauges, and ugly mechanics. it is hard, but that is alsmost as important to me as the tank and its contents!



Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain
I think the look is nice of the ADA tanks and the product line.
The tanks are actually quite cheap compared to custom or special order items.

The substrate is also cheap/cheapeer than/as Flourite and cheaper than FB or EC.

Some item are clearly pricy and most might not use them.

But a nice looking light, nice looking tank and nice substrate are worthwhile items to have nice looking tank.

Maybe you folks don';t care about gangly looking equipment and stands/hoods, and other external things about your tanks, I sure do though, so do most spouses....

A nice display looks nice when the rest of the place also looks good, and the tank is placed well in a home etc.

It's not just about what is inside the box.

Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-05-2006, 02:49 AM
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It seems to me a lot of the most beautiful tanks are not only rimless, something which is not widely available, but also have greater depth. Yet today, you practically have to order a 120 gallon tank in order to get a 24" deep tank (front to rear depth). Its easy to hide heaters and most gear today, but plants can do the same. I really think the art is inside the tank, not hiding fancy hardware required to do such. The wood and/or rocks, foreground plants , moss, mid/background plants and open areas set the mood and vision. The gear laying around a water garden doesn't distract me in the least. But inside the tank, that's a different story. I see the beauty on the canvas, not as much upon the frame. One of the nicest tanks I've ever seen was a 180 gallon in an Australian's basement fishroom. Rohan's or something like that was his name.





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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-05-2006, 03:32 AM
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Well I bet that an average Eheim or Rena would do jus fine in comparison with Amano's SS handmade filters at a 1/4 of the cost. I also think that lighting might not enter into the equation since lower lighting would just take longer to achieve the same effect. Lilly pipes... Are they really what they are cracked up to be? A spray bar from an Eheim or a Rena will do the same thing.

In reality, you can run what ever you want on an aquarium. It just might take a lil longer to get the same effect as Amano or Knott has achieved. Then again ya might just get there even quicker dependin on your equipment.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-05-2006, 04:03 AM
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Would Takashi Amano, Oliver Knott, & ADG (just to name a few) be able to achieve their magnificent aquascapes without their premium equipment (lights, filter, co2) & supplies (substrate, ferts, flora + fauna, hardscape)?

I have looked at this for a couple of days now, and don't understand exactly what is meant by "premium" equipment. You haven't completely defined premium to me.

There is also an assumption that the mentioned aquascapers solely use these unnamed and undefined, "premium" products. We know Amano uses his own product, but we (or at least I) can't say with any certainty that the others mentioned don't use most or some of the same things the average hobbyist might. What type of filter does Oliver Knott use most often? I couldn't tell you!

Lights? Filter? CO2? I really don't know of many "premium" forms of these items, or forms that are not available to most of us.

Lights? What would you consider premium? Power compacts? MH? All of those things are available to both the average or experienced hobbyist.

Filter? Again, what is premium? I have seen beautiful aquascapes filtered with all sorts of filters available to all of us. I am not sure what you would consider to be premium filter. The glass lily pipes? They are cool. Does it make a difference? In function? No. In aesthetics? Yes. I look at the 37G I set up with an ADA intake Lily pipe. I stand back and don't see the intake at all. It look great. I look at my 75G I set up with the standard Eheim gear. I stand back and see a green intake pipe. The aquarium looks good, but the pipe just sticks out. I am going to add an intake Lily pipe and am sure the 75G aquarium will look much better.

CO2? What would someone consider to be a premium CO2?

Follow my line of thought?

Under supplies, substrates are mentioned. Flourite and Eco-Complete were once considered premium substrates! Now they are pretty common place. Like Tom has said, ADA substrates are becoming quite comparable in price to Flourite and Eco-Complete. Take a look at ADG website. The pricing is quite reasonable! In fact, I believe as more people start using the ADA substrates, the price may even come down a bit more. I would no longer consider Aquasoil to be an unreachable "premium" substrate. In fact I would hazard to say that the "premium" cache is wearing off pretty quickly as the product price has come down and the number of people using it has gone up.

By "premium" fertilizer I would imagine it is inferred to mean ADA fertilizers (I have to assume the original poster means ADA fertilizers when they mentioned "premium" as these are the only products that can be considered "premium"). I don't know who is using them. No one has ever really told me they are using the "premium" products.

Premium flora and fauna seems silly.

Hardscape? Again, I am at a loss as to what is "premium". I will again assume the reference is to Amano's products. They are rock and they are wood. What sets them apart and makes them "premium" ($) is the price you pay for them. You pay the high price because it is pretty expensive to ship tons of rock and wood half way across the world. I am sure the closer to the point of origin for the particular hardscape components the cheaper they will be.

However, that being said, the stone is beautiful. I can't get stone like that around here. The rocks types are uniform in color to each other and interesting in shape and texture. The wood is the same. The color is consistent between pieces. That uniformity in color and texture in the wood and stone created a tied in relationship between those pieces of stone and wood that really makes the aquascape work because those pieces belong together. They match! There is no hodge podge. That does make a difference.

Also, these men do this for a living. They have access to these things each and everyday and more of it than we could imagine. They probably look at more wood and stone in a day than we do in several months.

Mike
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