C02 and Biowheels..... - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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C02 and Biowheels.....

ok i have a 20 gal tank and am using DIY c02 and have been reading that biowheels are bad for c02...

i believe this and was wondering is it the biowheel itself or the whole setup?

if i just remove the wheels and leave the floss with carbon inserts in it will that take care of the biowheel problem?

or is the whole setup a POS? just curious
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 06:34 PM
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I think a lot of people have had good success with just removing the Biowheels from HOB filters.

I'm running a new DIY CO2 set up with the biowheels still in place on my filter, though, and I'm seeing good CO2 levels so far. (KH is 11 and PH is reading about 7.1, which indicates 27 ppm of CO2 if I'm using the calculator correctly). I may experiment later by removing the biowheels and seeing if there's a big difference.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
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right now i have a ph of 7.8 and a KH of 13 so im pretty low....
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 08:28 PM
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I am currently running DIY CO2 with a Hagen ladder and a Penguin 100 with a biowheel. My KH is 2 and pH is around 7, which means my CO2 is < 10 ppm. I am going to do 2 things to try to increase that concentration - use a large co2 bottle by going to a 4 L bottle of sugar/yeast (rather than the Hagen bottle) and I just got a Fluval 204 which should minimize the splashing.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcom1234
i believe this and was wondering is it the biowheel itself or the whole setup?
The problem is the suface turbulence created by HOB filters, BioWheels in particular. Surface turbulence promotes air/gas exchange and co2 is outgassed from the water as a result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcom1234
if i just remove the wheels and leave the floss with carbon inserts in it will that take care of the biowheel problem?
Like is mentioned above, removing the biowheel has indeed helped some people.

On another note, you may want to rethink using carbon inserts on filter used for a planted tank. Carbon will remove a lot of impurities from the water, but will also trap some things that you want (ferts).
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 10:30 PM
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Talking

Let's get Hypancistrus to post his thoughts

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banderbe
Let's get Hypancistrus to post his thoughts
I'm familiar with the fact that some people disagree that there is significant outgassing, but as of yet I've not seen any definitive proof that this is the case.

Furthermore, it would seem even stranger that in cases of of excessive co2 levels being detected the first recommended remedy is always "use an air pump to create surface turbulence".
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 11:23 PM
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I'm not disagreeing with you, sparrow, but is the airpump that's often recommended in cases of excess co2 intended primarily to create surface turbulence or is surface turbulence just a consequence of the airpump putting oxygen into the water below its surface?

I am seeing (so far) good levels of CO2 in my tank with the biowheels on my HOB filter intact, but I also keep my water level pretty high so there isn't much splashing. That may play a role as well.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 11:32 PM
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That may very well be the case.

I'd wonder, as well, if there wouldn't be less outgassing in a "covered tank" that has glass lids as opposed to an open-top setup.

The statement that I made was based on what I experienced (my co2 levels went up when I moved my spraybar to decrease turbulence) as well as what I've read in several threads here. If I am mistaken, so be it.

I would like to see the results of some "scientific testing" on this topic.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 11:38 PM
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My tank has a glass cover as well, which may also prevent some out-gassing. A lot of people talk about the splashing noise of the Biowheel-type HOB filters and my water level is so high that I almost never hear it, so I may well be beating the odds by keeping a high water level and a reasonably tight lid on top.

I'd be interested in seeing some testing on the subject, too -- I'm happy with the co2 levels I seem to be getting with my biowheels in place, but I'd like to know the science behind the results I'm seeing. I'd also be interested in seeing test results on various methods of getting the gas into the tank to begin with. A lot of folks new to CO2 use one of the more passive methods to get the CO2 into the tank (airstone, ladder, spiral ladder, bell, glass diffuser) instead of a reactor and it would be interesting to see a test of which is most efficient, all other things being equal.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncskainch
I'd also be interested in seeing test results on various methods of getting the gas into the tank to begin with.
Have you followed the thread about how that micro-bubbles might be more efficient? I think that we may see some advances in the "thoughts behind the science" of co2 injection in the next couple of years.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-03-2006, 12:55 AM
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i have a bio wheel and i got the redsea "natural" co2 system basicly diy. it diffuses thru a powerhead. i get good co2 im not sure exactly what the level is tho.. i also learned that if you bring the water lvl just over the lip of the hob filter you get no splashing....

its a nice trick i got from the lfs lol

-=- fish newb -=-

also i dont think the "scientific" testing will be very acurate because there are WAYYY too many variables... i read about this on another thread somewhere...
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-03-2006, 03:05 AM Thread Starter
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Woooo Hoooo! i guess i got everyone going on this one huh?

i thought the problem might have been, since the bio wheel is designed to expose the water to more air than normal < no biowheel > that ..that was the resoning behind the don't use a biowheel thoughts.....

it makes sense but was wondering that if i remove the biowheel and still have the return flow " disturbing" the water..... which i wouldn't classify as "disturbing" ..... to me disturbing would be splashing and such... right now it just kinda flows...... nice and smooth .... almost like a river running over a few small smooth rocks....just barely ripples.....

now if thats disturbing..... and we don't want disturbing while doing the c02....then what if i ran the filter just during the evening when the lights are out?

if i do that am i going to be screwing with the filtering as far as it not working?

right now with my DIY C02 i leave it going all the time and leave the lights on about 11 hours which i plan on reducing to about 9 or 10 and then i turn the bubbles on when i turn the lights out. hope to get some timers going on this stuff soon.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-03-2006, 05:38 AM
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it may also have to do with tank size.

I'm with sparrow on this one. I have a 75 that I set up with penguin 400 biowheel and that thing would never le tthe CO2 get high enough to lower the PH to my desired level. I tok it out and got canister filters like was reccommended and presto...Co2 is balanced. On a smaller tank with MORE co2 being made...the biowheel and it's water surface turbulance may counter balance eachother...and maintain good levels of each. But the water returning from the HOB filter WILL create surface turbulance...and anyone with an overflow style tank (I have reefs as well) will tell you that even that little bit goes a long way in promoting better oxygen transfer between the air and water.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2006, 12:47 AM
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you might try removing the biowheel to see if it helps. I know for sure that when I had a Penguin 125 on my 25 gallon that I had SERIOUS outgassing. WHen I switched it to a XP1 I had to turn down my CO2 quite a bit even though I have the spray bar making a fair amount of turbulence. I suspect that without the Biowheel you'll still have a lot of outgassing - just less than you would with the Biowheel. Another thing, once I got the canister filter I realized how piss-poor the HOB was at getting the tank really clean.

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