Wet/Dry filter DOES cause CO2 loss - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-13-2013, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
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Wet/Dry filter DOES cause CO2 loss

Hello!

I don't see why a wet/dry filter wouldn't cause CO2 loss as claimed in this FAQ.

A Wet/Dry filter increases water-to-air surface to maximize the rate of oxygenation of water. but the more water-to-air surface a tank has, the more CO2 will leak out because the concentration of CO2 in the tank is roughly 10 times the concentration of CO2 in the air (30ppm vs 0.03%) so CO2 will get out every time water comes in contact with air.

i believe that it is arguable if the CO2 loss is significant in a Wet/Dry filter but it is flat out wrong to claim CO2 doesn't get lost in one.

do you agree or disagree? and why?


http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/co2_faq.htm#T16

"I've been told that I can't use CO2 injection because my trickle filter will strip it from the water.

Hogwash! Trickle filters work just fine with CO2 injection. The only change you may need to make is to not inject air into the media chamber. The slight pressure caused by an air pump will tend to push CO2 out of the chamber and cause some loss. The bacteria will get plenty of oxygen from the air being pulled down the inlet tube (that's the rushing noise you hear).

As a matter of fact, a trickle filter is the perfect place to put your CO2 reactor!"
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-13-2013, 02:00 AM
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I am not sure what you are asking; CO2 diffusion increases when surface agitation increases.

This does not prevent you from using a particular type of filter.

You can use a wet/dry, trickle, sponge, etc. filter if you wish, but you will need to inject significantly more CO2 in order to compensate for the (large) increase in CO2 diffusion rate.

Anthony


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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-13-2013, 02:17 AM
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I won't argue against that, but I do love running my wet/dry as the water clarity is always really nice. I do burn through some CO2, but it's pretty cheap to refill every few months.


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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-13-2013, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markl323 View Post
As a matter of fact, a trickle filter is the perfect place to put your CO2 reactor!"
Do you mean feeding CO2 into the filter, making it as CO2 reactor? I think, theoretically:

more CO2 in tickle filter -> bacteria works slower -> nitrogen cycle works slower, but more CO2 in water
suitable for plant > fish

Vice versa,
not supplying CO2 in tickle filter -> bacteria at normal speed -> nitrogen cycle works as expected, but more CO2 will be escaped from water
suitable for large fish population
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-13-2013, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinBear View Post
Do you mean feeding CO2 into the filter, making it as CO2 reactor? I think, theoretically:

more CO2 in tickle filter -> bacteria works slower -> nitrogen cycle works slower, but more CO2 in water
suitable for plant > fish

Vice versa,
not supplying CO2 in tickle filter -> bacteria at normal speed -> nitrogen cycle works as expected, but more CO2 will be escaped from water
suitable for large fish population
No bacteria for us are affected mostly due to ph.
So more co2 means less bacterial function in most cases. For me i have almost zero bacterial function from 9 am to 6 pm. But then it kicks back on when co2 leaves suspension.

A wet/dry setup properly doesnt use much more co2. I have a wide open drain, and i will say this having a larger drain line uses less co2 becuase less air is being pulled by the siphon. This is similar to how a herbie setup or a bean animal setup would work just with one drain.

And if u dont think u can use co2 with a wet dry. Checkout my journal. Yellow drop checker for reference. And a decent variety of plants that are growing under lots and lots of light

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 01:53 AM
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I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but what is the need for a wet dry on a planted aquarium? I can see running a sump on a big tank, but a wet dry just doesn't make any sense to me. Please advise.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 04:06 AM
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Re: Wet/Dry filter DOES cause CO2 loss

Better oxygen levels, easy maintenance, less equipment in tank and i think you can do more with it in terms of other equipment easier...nw-cerges, multiple returns, auto refill/top off, etc

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 04:13 AM
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What you guys think about this setup? I want to inject Co2 also.







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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 04:31 AM
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George Booth (who I know), Steve Dixon and myself all had wet/dry filters back then, and we all agreed and did this simple test independently:

pH meter: American Marine Pinpoint, calibrated at 4 and 7 pH.

Over time (say every 1-2 hours):

Increase surface turbulence, where the water breaks the surface, measure pH.
Quiet surface: measure pH.

By pass wet/dry using a cansiter + powerhead
Include wet/dry filter without the Canister and powerhead.

I needed more flow than the canister alone had to match the flow with the sump return.

Seal the wet/dry section with duct tape vs not sealing it. Measure pH etc.

Any changes in pH upwards= CO2 loss.

I use a wet/dry and Mame on a 17 Gal tank.




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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
George Booth (who I know), Steve Dixon and myself all had wet/dry filters back then, and we all agreed and did this simple test independently:

pH meter: American Marine Pinpoint, calibrated at 4 and 7 pH.

Over time (say every 1-2 hours):

Increase surface turbulence, where the water breaks the surface, measure pH.
Quiet surface: measure pH.

By pass wet/dry using a cansiter + powerhead
Include wet/dry filter without the Canister and powerhead.

I needed more flow than the canister alone had to match the flow with the sump return.

Seal the wet/dry section with duct tape vs not sealing it. Measure pH etc.

Any changes in pH upwards= CO2 loss.

I use a wet/dry and Mame on a 17 Gal tank.
I feel like in ur brain this all made sense but something was left out
i think ur trying to point out that a wet/dry even sealed had better oxygen content and did not waste much co2
vs a cannister filter.
and this type of test was done independently by a few others as well

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Darkblade48: you and I actually agree. I just wanted to point out that that particular answer in the FAQ was misleading because it said a wet/dry filter would work "just fine" without mentioning the increased CO2 loss in a default setup where the Wet/Dry chamber is not sealed.

I'm not saying that one shouldn't use a wet/dry in a planted tank. I'm saying that it accelerates CO2 loss.

thinBear: what you quoted came from the author of that FAQ. by that he meant putting internal (as opposed to in-line) reactors inside the wet/dry filter to make the display tank less messy. but i agree with you that if you inject CO2 anywhere into the tank, the rate of denitrification will slow down (although probably not much) since the more CO2 you have in the water the less O2 it can hold.

plaintbrain: i think i have found the George Booth's article for his test: http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/co2-loss.html.
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