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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-26-2013, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Reliable CO2 Information

See if you can spot the difference between these two informative sites on CO2 levels.
(hint - check out the charts)

http://www.aquariumslife.com/aquasca...arium_co2_tes/

and

http://www.petfish.net/kb/entry/259/

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-26-2013, 09:30 AM
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They have the chart mix up with "too much" , simple mistake. Maybe they just copy/paste it wrong.


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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-26-2013, 03:26 PM
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Either way they are inaccurate.
My tank kh is 5 and ph 6.5 from aquasoil. This is without co2 injection.. soo what does that say about my tank??

Most reliable indicator is plants. They will tell u if u have enough if u know what to look for

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-26-2013, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
Either way they are inaccurate.
My tank kh is 5 and ph 6.5 from aquasoil. This is without co2 injection.. soo what does that say about my tank??

Most reliable indicator is plants. They will tell u if u have enough if u know what to look for
Tell us what to look for. This is undoubtably true, but it offers no information.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-26-2013, 07:23 PM
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Under most ligthting levels many plants will start to pearl on new growth, this is a first indicator, even low lighting will do this. Although it will only happen on the newest leaves in low lighting
Leaves will be very straight and lean towards the light slightly. If there isnt enough co2, plants will bend their leaves away from light, this is generally noticeable when co2 injection is present and not quite sufficient for new growth to keep up with the light,, ill take a picture of it when i get home,,
Whether its a stress response or just a general sign i cant be sure
plant leaf circled in black will stand up as new growth fills in as co2 has been adjusted up, but you can see its not standing up straight instead bending away from light. plants will do this dialy if co2 is close to enough but not quite where it should be
plant circled in red was far enough away from the light and had some growth above it to grow properly for a new plantlet and you can see its stance is more upward, its size is not appropriate though due to less light levels


If uve grown a plant with sufficient co2 for ur light level, youll also notice how a healthy full grown leaf looks, color and shapewise. This is an important thing to remember because its also a good indicator of proper co2 levels.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-26-2013, 08:17 PM
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Most of the better scapers seem to eyeball cO2, they start with some relative measure of dosing for CO2, then they tweak and adjust slowly from there.

I do the same thing with the pH/Kh chart, but not those charts above

Also, as you depress the pH with CO2 gas, the concentration will increase a lot more(eg, it's non linear) for each 0.2 units of pH.

Say you have a KH of 3 degrees.

At a pH of 7.0 you would have 9 ppm
At a pH of 6.8 you would have 14.3 ppm
At a pH of 6.6 you would have 22.6 ppm
At a pH of 6.4 you would have 35.8 ppm
At a pH of 6.2 you would have 56.8 ppm
At a pH of 6.0 you would have 90 ppm

Differences between each 0.2 pH units:
5.3 ppm
8.3 ppm
13.2 ppm
21 ppm
33.2

So your pH measurement and observations need to be very good when you use more CO2. If you over do things at the higher ppm's, it only takes a little bit of change to dramatically increase the CO2.

This is one reason why many people fail when adding more CO2 and gas their fish instead. If each 0.2 pH units were only 5 ppm difference, then it would be pretty easy to adjust CO2. This is also a good reason to buy a nice CO2 regulator, needle valve etc.

Ah but what do I know, hehe

Since many use the drop checkers and there's little differences between the colors and those color changes are at best, 0.2 pH, what does this say at the higher ppm's of CO2? Not much.

Or if they use colormetric pH measure? Similar.
A good 0.01 accuracy pH meter is likely the best relative measure for CO2 using pH.

I knock my pH down about 1.4 pH units. This is about 47 ppm.
If it went to 1.6, then I'm at 75 ppm's, if I back off just a hair, 0.1 pH units, then I'm about 1.5 pH units, I'm at 59 ppm. 1.3 pH units, 38ppm, 1.2 pH units, about 30 ppm.

Tweaking CO2 is not some simple thing. It's not something to just wing it and assume the drop check has to be correct. You need to be careful.
A good pH meter can help make small tweaks and adjustments.




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 12:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
Most of the better scapers seem to eyeball cO2, they start with some relative measure of dosing for CO2, then they tweak and adjust slowly from there.

I do the same thing with the pH/Kh chart, but not those charts above
.....
Since many use the drop checkers and there's little differences between the colors and those color changes are at best, 0.2 pH, what does this say at the higher ppm's of CO2? Not much.
....
Tweaking CO2 is not some simple thing. It's not something to just wing it and assume the drop check has to be correct. You need to be careful.
A good pH meter can help make small tweaks and adjustments.
It's amateur hour. Suddenly everyone's an expert. Publishing regurgitated myth and hearsay. How can anyone publish a professional CO2 application guide and get it so wrong? Did they not read it prior to publishing?

You are right of course. Trying to do fine adjustments at the end of a log scale with litmus and BPS is unsound. If you're serious you'll buy a real pH meter and ideally a PP CO2 meter then you will know. After all, if we are honest, how much time and money have we spent on superfluous aquarium stuff and dead plants and fish over the years?
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
Either way they are inaccurate.
My tank kh is 5 and ph 6.5 from aquasoil. This is without co2 injection.. soo what does that say about my tank??

Most reliable indicator is plants. They will tell u if u have enough if u know what to look for
Yes, it's all a bit of a joke isn't it.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 01:35 AM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by papwalker View Post
Yes, it's all a bit of a joke isn't it.
Indeed

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