PMDD fertilizing quantities - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 12:56 AM Thread Starter
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PMDD fertilizing quantities

I have a 58G planted tank with pressurized CO2. I want to use Greg Watson's fertilizers. What fertilizers do you suggest? How do I mix and made the solution ? What dosing schedule?

Thanks
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 01:02 AM
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Recommendations:

Nitrates = KNO3 - 2 lbs
Phosphates = KH2PO4 - 1lb
Traces = CSM+B - 1lb
Iron - Chelated Iron - 1lb

I would recommend to just dose as Tom Barr's EI method recommends.

1/4t KNO3 3-4x per week per 20g's
1/32 to 1/16t KH2PO4 3-4x per week per 20g's
5ml CSM+B (2T/500ml solution) 3x per week per 20g's

Allen has hard water, correct? no need for Calcium or Magnesium additives?

schedule:
Su,Tu,Th,Sa = KNO3 and KH2PO4
Mo,We,Fr = Traces and Iron

50-75% water change on Sundays.

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 01:11 AM
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Follow the dosing regime that Spar has suggested, but I would dose nothing on the day before your water change. The EI is easy to use...I don't recommend PMDD (a little too old school now).

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 02:42 AM
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i actually don't dose on Saturdays either. not sure why I recommended it. Guess it really doesn't make too much of a difference.

I thought PMDD was just a rolled-up mix of a lot of substances? I never realized it was an actual dosing regime. Guess I have been going EI too long to remember the old versions

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 05:10 AM
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You can also mega dose right before the water change also if you have good plant biomass and want to drive the tank growth rates a bit faster.

I do 80% water changes in that case.

You can also wait a day of the water change and dose the following day.

It's fairly flexible, 2-3x a week dosing is enough for most lighting levels.

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 12:27 PM
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Looking at Sparís recommendations, I have been severely under dosing.
One of the things I would like to avoid is having to mix a solution. Can I just add the traces dry? I have the following measuring spoons:

* Dash = 1/8 teaspoon
* Smidgen = 1/32 teaspoon
* Pinch = 1/16 teaspoon

So, =5ml/500ml*6teaspoons= .06teaspoons or ~1/16 t.

Other than being able to measure more accurately are there other benefits of dosing with a solution?
Another question I had is why are the traces dosed on days where the Macros arenít? Wouldnít it be easier to dose them both at the same time?

I have a 55g with a sump. I am guessing a total of 45-50 gallons. So here is the revised dosing schedule based on 45 gallons or 2.25 Sparís recommendations:

Ĺ t. KNO3
1/16 t. KH2PO4
1/8 t. CSM+B

Monday, Wednesday, and Friday
50% Water change on Sat. Bringing the new water up to the right levels with 50% of the above numbers.

Now, just to complicate things I have shrimp in the tank. How much of a problem will the Cu in the CSM+B be?

I also have
KSO4
MgSO4
CaNO3
CaCO3

Would it help to substitute the CaNO3 for the KNO3 every other dose?

Also I have access to free RO water. Any glaring reason I couldnít top off one Saturday with RO, and move the water changes to every other week?


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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Safado
Looking at Sparís recommendations, I have been severely under dosing.
One of the things I would like to avoid is having to mix a solution. Can I just add the traces dry? I have the following measuring spoons:

* Dash = 1/8 teaspoon
* Smidgen = 1/32 teaspoon
* Pinch = 1/16 teaspoon

So, =5ml/500ml*6teaspoons= .06teaspoons or ~1/16 t.

Other than being able to measure more accurately are there other benefits of dosing with a solution?
Another question I had is why are the traces dosed on days where the Macros arenít? Wouldnít it be easier to dose them both at the same time?

I have a 55g with a sump. I am guessing a total of 45-50 gallons. So here is the revised dosing schedule based on 45 gallons or 2.25 Sparís recommendations:

Ĺ t. KNO3
1/16 t. KH2PO4
1/8 t. CSM+B

Monday, Wednesday, and Friday
50% Water change on Sat. Bringing the new water up to the right levels with 50% of the above numbers.

Now, just to complicate things I have shrimp in the tank. How much of a problem will the Cu in the CSM+B be?

I also have
KSO4
MgSO4
CaNO3
CaCO3

Would it help to substitute the CaNO3 for the KNO3 every other dose?

Also I have access to free RO water. Any glaring reason I couldnít top off one Saturday with RO, and move the water changes to every other week?

You can dose traces dry (but I haven't tried it). I dose my macros dry since the little spoons can come in handy. I do make a small stock solution of the micros and store it in my fridge (I use a liquidoser for my micros and actually have modified my EI method).

As far as a big reason why we don't generally dose micros on the same day as macros is because of precipitation issues (usually phosphate and iron will precipitate out as a white powder--I did that a long time ago by mistake).

No worries with CSM+B and copper with shrimp...mine are doing fine and I average about 30-40 mL of CSM+B a week.

By the ways, the revised schedule seems more on par for a tank your size...

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiadawgger
As far as a big reason why we don't generally dose micros on the same day as macros is because of precipitation issues (usually phosphate and iron will precipitate out as a white powder--I did that a long time ago by mistake).
Thanks for the info! I will keep dosing them off cycle with the macros.


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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 10:24 PM
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One problem with those small measuring spoons are they are sold as


* Dash = 1/8 teaspoon
* Smidgen = 1/32 teaspoon
* Pinch = 1/16 teaspoon

But many times are not fractional teaspoons but fractional tablespoons.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-03-2005, 08:21 PM
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1/4t KNO3 3-4x per week per 20g's
1/32 to 1/16t KH2PO4 3-4x per week per 20g's
5ml CSM+B (2T/500ml solution) 3x per week per 20g's


Could i use the same dosage as stated about for my 125 gallon tank? Right now all i dose is 1/4 teaspoon of kno3 (stump remover) and 1/4 teasponn fleet enema every other day. I didn't realize i needed to do trace elements also. Any input would be appreciated. Also do you have to mix greg watson fertlizers with water or can you add them dry? Also is their advantage to adding them dry or wet?
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-03-2005, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbysl
1/4t KNO3 3-4x per week per 20g's
1/32 to 1/16t KH2PO4 3-4x per week per 20g's
5ml CSM+B (2T/500ml solution) 3x per week per 20g's


Could i use the same dosage as stated about for my 125 gallon tank? Right now all i dose is 1/4 teaspoon of kno3 (stump remover) and 1/4 teasponn fleet enema every other day. I didn't realize i needed to do trace elements also. Any input would be appreciated. Also do you have to mix greg watson fertlizers with water or can you add them dry? Also is their advantage to adding them dry or wet?

Definitley up your dosage if you haven't been...unless the tank is running nice and smooth and you've been following a set schedule that is providing good results (don't fix it if it ain't broke).

As far as trace elements (micros), the plants need them just as much as the macros...but to a lesser extent since your tap water may even contain a bit.

As far as dosing plantex csm+b dry, I mentioned above, I haven't tried that since the stuff is pretty powerful/potent. I simply dissolve in water and dose. It's just a bit easier for me. As far as a 125g tank, it may be better to dose dry for you...but then again I really don't dose anything "dry". I have a small bottle that I dissolve my macros in before I dump them into the tank.

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-03-2005, 08:41 PM
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yes, the same dosing amounts would be the same for a 125g.

Looks like you are underdosing quite a bit. do you have high light and co2 injection?

You can dose (and is somewhat preferred) dry with Greg Watson's fertilizers. The only advantage to dosing liquid is if you have a small tank and would be hard to measure out small measurements. You could instead dose 5ml of something.

If you go with CSM+B as traces, it comes out to be near 1/16t per 20g's if dosed dry.

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-03-2005, 08:45 PM
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Yes i have 4-96watt compact pc lights and automatic c02. If im under dosing how much should i be dosing? Also i just ordered some plants i know your not suppose to fertlize the new plants for about 4 weeks but what do i do about plants i already have in the tank?
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-03-2005, 08:53 PM
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not dosing new plants has been disputed before, and many people recommend to just start on it right away. less chance of getting algae a head start.

just dose exactly as the recommendation up above says. but, 6x as much since you have about 120g's or so of water.

with that much light and co2 injection, you should see a very positive change in your tank very soon. btw, make sure your co2 is 30ppm+.

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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-03-2005, 08:59 PM
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stupid question but how do you if you c02 is at 30bpm i just have my ph controller set at high level 7.5 and the low level set a 6.9 and it comes on when it gets to 7.5 and shuts off at 7.2. I say it comes on around every 3 to four hours. What about csm+b i dont even dose that but im about ready to put an order to greg watson what how much would i need to dose?
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