Are Amano's products (ADA) worth the money? - The Planted Tank Forum
View Poll Results: Are Amano's products (ADA) worth the money?
Yes 30 22.22%
No 42 31.11%
It depends... 51 37.78%
Can't decide 12 8.89%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Are Amano's products (ADA) worth the money?

Seems many people have an opinion on this topic. I know I do.

So vote your feelings. And after that, let us know how you feel with a post!


And BTW - I am hoping to create an appropriate venue for the topic to be discussed. And I see no reason why normal rules of decorum should not still apply, even if you have strong feelings about this. Please keep it nice.

Steve - 33g reef and a 180g planted in need of a re-scape.

Last edited by scolley; 08-19-2005 at 01:34 PM.
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post #2 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 12:01 PM
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I don't think such a poll is viable at this time. The products are new to us in the US/Canada, where most people voting here are based and there is no body of work to go by. Also lumping all the products into one catchall is a falicy. We have been told by the importer that certain products are not intended for this market.
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post #3 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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You're making a good point gnatster. But there sure are some mighty strong opinions out there at the moment. Many people seem to feel that they have enough info to make blanket statements right now.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your point. I'm just pointing out that lots of people seem to have some very strong opinions right now.

Hear is a place they can post them, rather than pulling threads off topic every time an ADA product is mentioned.

Steve - 33g reef and a 180g planted in need of a re-scape.
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post #4 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
pulling threads off topic every time an ADA product is mentioned.
I can see that happening here plus a lock down aswell

You can always add but never take.

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post #5 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scolley
You're making a good point gnatster. But there sure are some mighty strong opinions out there at the moment. Many people seem to feel that they have enough info to make blanket statements right now.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your point. I'm just pointing out that lots of people seem to have some very strong opinions right now.

Hear is a place they can post them, rather than pulling threads off topic every time an ADA product is mentioned.
Thanks. You are correct, there are many strong opinions on this matter, and I choose Depends. I should qualify that choice, as should others when making their choice otherwise we have no no understanding of why the results look as they do.

I chose Depends due to various factors.

1. It depends on the product. While I think the substrate system is of great value at this point from the conversations I've had with knowledgeable people I also take at face value the point the distributors make on the filter system.

2. Depends on the persons ultimate goal. Are they looking for a "turnkey" setup where you add water and plants and it works? Or are you a DIY kind of person with a deep need to know how many mg of KNO3 the tank needs on a daily basis.

3. Depends on if you are one that can accept the sales and marketing pitch at face value or if you must question and seek scientific proof.

That in part is my reasoning.

I still contend that this poll is not worth the electrons it's using, no offense scolly, unless the respondents offer up their reasoning. This forum cuts across many demographics. Case in point, income level. A person of significant income may think that yes it well worth the money as setting up a 100% ADA tank is less then spent on dinner last night. While another scraping from paycheck to paycheck, eating ramen noodles, might be aghast the price of fancy imported dirt. Unless the person making the choice in the poll qualifies the choice I think we end up with a meaningless chart.

But opinions are like ...
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post #6 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnatster
While another scraping from paycheck to paycheck, eating ramen noodles, might be aghast the price of fancy imported dirt. Unless the person making the choice in the poll qualifies the choice I think we end up with a meaningless chart.

But opinions are like ...

Still doing that...so I have to vote not worth it!! Even if I had a million dollars I still wouldn't buy forceps that cost $100!!!

Re-boot!
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post #7 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 02:57 PM
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Voted "Depends".
I think it's terrific to have it as one of the options available out there, value regardless. Still the newess of the matter will not attribute to the sensible polemic at this point IMO.

PS. I'v bought some minor ADA things, have still to try them out..
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post #8 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 04:28 PM
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I think it's highly subjective to a person's disposable income and application. Take for instance their soil. All the ferts are in there in the substrate and grows plants like weed. The downside? Gets depleted within a couple of years. By then you either have to dose the water column or redo the substrate. You can easily grow plants and sell them off to easily make a profit over the cost of setup if that's the route you're interested in.

For me, I'm in it for the long run and don't feel like spending the extra money for something that I'm already doing (ferts in the water column). While the plants don't grow as fast, I'm happy with the results that I'm currently getting.

Eric


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post #9 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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Clarification

I'm wondering if what I though was implied should have been more clear...

When we are talking about not a single product, but rather many products, any question of value will depend on which product, or set of products (soil, lighting, tanks, CO2, equiptment... ) we are talking about.

So, while you are free to answer as you see fit, my question was meant to be general...
"Are ADA products, generally speaking, worth the money?"

As to it depending on the amount of money you have at your disposal, I assumed that to be self-evident too. I was looking for your assessment of value, based on your criteria. And if that criteria is how much money you do, or do not, have in your pocket - that's a great basis for an answer. But please answer for yourself, not for people in general.

Every purchase decision depends on how much money you have. This is no different.

Steve - 33g reef and a 180g planted in need of a re-scape.
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post #10 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 06:21 PM
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Thumbs down

Too be honest, I also don't see the point of this poll, this thread or this debate at all. Here is why.

Firstly, the products are so very new to our market that very, very few people have had any practical experience with them. Without the practical experience, no one can truly and honestly comment on the performance/value of the product. Any comments without experience would be pure conjecture and be opinion without any thing to really back it up. I don't mind reading about peoples opinions on a product or service based on experiences, but I am not interested in a person's "gut reaction" to a topic like this. I have to be honest with everyone on this very topic. I am sick to death of people disparaging these products not based on first hand experience, performance or value, but solely based on price. It is ignorant. It is old. I have never commented on the value of any piece of Eheim, Rena, Tetra, Milwaukee, AZOO or any other manufacturer's equipment without first hand experience, and I will not do so about ADA equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scolley
Many people seem to feel that they have enough info to make blanket statements right now.
Blanket statements are just that, blanket statements. They are usually overly inclusive, draw conclusions and are often prejudiced. I don't put much salt into a blanket statement, be it about ADA products, race relations or religion. Blanket statements are usually not worth the wool (or polyester) they are woven from.

Secondly, there is the issue of price relevancy. What might be affordable to one is not going to be affordable to another. The topic becomes a subtle debate on what one person can afford versus what another can afford. Opinions will be draw on that economic condition alone, as opposed to performance/value.

Don't consider my statements part of the discussion or "healthy debate" of this topic. Consider my comments as disgust for the topic in general. I am sorry, Steve, and I mean you and everyone on the board no ill will or disrespect, but I just can't stomach this very discussion anymore. It should be a debate based on practical experience in relation to cost of the product to determine value first hand, as opposed to the the value of the product being determined by cost alone, which it is.

This whole thing is a silly exercise in futility, IMHO.

Mike

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post #11 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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Momo - your reaction is a case in point. People do appear to have strong feelings on this topic. If you don't believe me, read your own post.

My intentions were to provide an appropriate place to discuss a hotly debated topic, and get it out of other threads.

But moderation is your job, and one you do well IMO. So if you think this is harmful, not useful... not of value for whatever reason, then by all means shut it down.

Am not trying cause trouble, but alleviate it. Do as you see fit. I will, as always, respect and appreciate your decision.

Steve - 33g reef and a 180g planted in need of a re-scape.
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post #12 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 06:56 PM
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My reaction is not a "case in point", Steve. My reaction is not on topic, it is about the topic.

I don't see this topic as alleviating a problem, I do see it as possibly creating one, though.

Just because I don't see value in this discussion doesn't mean others don't. I am allowed an opinion, and will voice it now and then. A moderator's opinions are not the be all end all. There is plenty of stuff the other moderators and I would love to shut down, but we let things go. It is our board. You guys can talk about what you want as long as it is within reason, not offensive, disparaging or obscene.

I'll let it stand, Steve. We'll let you moderate the thread for a while. We'll let you bring it back on topic when it gets off, and soothe the bruised egos that may result! If you need a hand, you know who to call!

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post #13 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Mike that's a kind response. I guess when reading a mod's post it's tought to separate the job from the personal opion.

That's OK. To tell you the truth, this is not a topic I care a hill of beans about. I have my own opinion on this matter, and it's good enough for me.

I do care about people getting this silly debate out of threads where it does not belong though.

While I appreaciate the offer to allow me to do a bit of moderation on the topic, (I do!) but my work life makes my participation here spotty - sometimes high, sometimes low. So if I need to keep an eye on this, it would be better to shut it down IMO. I can't be counted on to have the time.

As always, happy to follow your lead on this point.

Oh yeah - I'm going on vacation tomorrow for about a week, so I can't watch this at all! (Just what you need right? Someone to put a pot on the stove, and then walk away to let it boil over.)

Steve - 33g reef and a 180g planted in need of a re-scape.
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post #14 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 07:26 PM
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I also don't see the viability of the poll since a lot of people voting will have never used ADA products before. I also don't get why ADA products need to be the target of such criticism and skepticism at every turn, why can't it just be accepted for what it is...another product line of aquarium plants...and for that I am happy because options are good. Given that, the majority of ADA products I would never spend my money on no matter how much money I have, but there are some that I really like.
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post #15 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 07:44 PM
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What about the threads about Reagent ACS chemicals as opposed to agricultural grade? It seems everyone (even mods) very strongly stated that not only was it a waste of money, but viewed it as an attack against Greg Watson and Tom Barr, and locked the posts... but here they are saying "Don't knock it unless you've tried it," and I'm sure no one tried the Reagent ACS chemicals.

Just a little confused over what causes these strong, passionate reactions in people. I'm only guessing it's money, but in my eyes, it's the same issue... more money for Amano equipment, more money for purer chemicals, yet the same people have opposite reactions on each subject.
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