Some questions about set up - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-01-2012, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Some questions about set up

I am thinking of getting back into the hobby after decades.

Was torn between a planted tank and a marine tank, but after watching some videos, I realized a cycled planted tank is close to self sustaining while a marine tank requires a chemical factory for support. Beside, planted aquariums look nicer than corals.

I would go with a 10 gal or a 20 gal.

What I would like to plant:

java moss
dwarf hair grass
baby dwarf tears
Hornwort/Wisteria in back


Soil would be Miracle Gro Potted with an addition
of some sand in the center of the tank. I hate gravel.

NO CO2, but I might insert an air bubble wand.

If I go with a 10 Gal

I would get an Aqueon 20 filter (a pit over powered)

6 neons (Even that is low # for neons)
3 RCS
3 dwarf gourami (added only after RCS have bred)
1 Oto (They say they shoal, but apparently, they can be solitary, too)

I know that slightly over stocked, but not by much

The idea is to breed the dwarf gouramis since there is always a need for females. I know this is a very long shot.

But Otos would not bother the Gourami eggs, neither would the neons.

Trade the DG kinder with a local LFS for supplies. Does petco trade?

I am trying to bring the tank and fish under $300

How much light would I need.

==============

If I go to 20 Gallon

Plants would be same filter would be booted up to Aqueon 30

Fish would be

10 neons. (Now, they won't be so neurotic)
3 RCS
3 dwarf gourami (added only after RCS have bred)
3 Oto

I want the dwarf hair grass to hide the shimp and fry ( I am thinking the dwarf gourami might breed I know this is a very long shot.

-------------------------------

The idea is that the RCS would breed but the gouramis would keep them in check.


How much light would I need. I know baby tears is high light.

Can I get a fixture for under $50?

Should I go with a glass or seaclear 20 acrylic.

Acrylic has the advantage of being almost leakproof, but I hate how they have to have small openings on top, because acrylic has NO structural strength.

Will acrylic degrade under heavy light.

I am scared of leaks.

I was thinking of buying LED strips from lowes, but can you place them right on top of acrylic.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1

If I go with glass, can you place LED on top of glass covers.

If I go with a sea clear 20, is there I bulb I could put in it to get the same effect.

I do not have the tools to DIY.

I prefer LEDS, because I do not want the mercury of flourescent bulbs.

If I go with a SeaClear 20, I might have to reconsider adding another $100 to the setup costs.

BTW: How common are aquarium leaks in store bought Aquariums.

While not perfect, is it reasonably safe to just assume a store bought aquarium is not going to leak.

If I leak test it, and drain it the next day, before adding soil, can I rub it down with a towel.

Are aqueons good filters? Yes or no?

I am thinking of getting a basic 20 gallon from Walmart but I am scared of their quality. Is there any store where the tanks can ALMOST be assured not to leak.

BTW: I was thinking of a fluval edge acrylic, but the thing looks horrid. I do not like the closed top. How would you clean algae?

So the basic first questions are:

1) Acrylic or glass. Which is safer? Does acrylic degrade under light?

2) Lighting. Is there anyway I can grown dwarf baby tears with lighting under $50 without a DIY

3) Are Aqueon filters good?

4) Is there a wholesale place near Ocean or Monmouth Counties in New Jersey so I can lower my cost.

5) If I buy this set up, are there companies which could manage it, when I am away on vacation?

NO C02 except maybe I would added a small bubble wand/airstone with a $10 air pump. I trust regular air would add some C02.
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-01-2012, 12:52 PM
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Getting Back Into the Waterkeeping Hobby

Hello Curious...

If you're interested in low maintenance, then I'd go with a larger tank. I started serious waterkeeping with a 30 G and it was large enough to survive my "learning curve".

I like low light, potted plants. I have Anubias and varieties of Amazon sword. I have Aglaonema, Pothos and Philodendron emersed.

I keep Fancy Guppies and a variety of Corydoras. The emersed plant roots take in the nitrogen from the fish waste and maintain pure water conditions for the fish.

The tank requires no water changes, just top offs to replace water lost to evaporation. The plants are trimmed routinely, but tank maintenance takes 30 minutes once a week.

I have the benefit of a lot of plants and fish without the maintenance.

B

"Fear not my child, just change the tank water."
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-01-2012, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousAmerican View Post
I am thinking of getting back into the hobby after decades.

Was torn between a planted tank and a marine tank, but after watching some videos, I realized a cycled planted tank is close to self sustaining while a marine tank requires a chemical factory for support. Beside, planted aquariums look nicer than corals.

I would go with a 10 gal or a 20 gal.

What I would like to plant:

java moss
dwarf hair grass
baby dwarf tears
Hornwort/Wisteria in back
first I wold not try dwarf baby tears if this is your first planted tank. They are a very tricky plant to actually grow and it would be better to practice with a easier plant. But you can try if you want, I did on my first one. Everything thing else you should be good to go with.

Soil would be Miracle Gro Potted with an addition
of some sand in the center of the tank. I hate gravel.
For the plnats you are wanting (minus dbt) you don't need to go with any kinda soil. You would be just fine with some play sand and a couple root tabs for your hair grass. For your Hornwort/Wisteria just dose flourish comp once a week.

NO CO2, but I might insert an air bubble wand.
Putting an air wand will do the exact opposite of doing co2. Your filters will add enough oxygen for your tank. Without pressurized co2, an air bubbler is just for looks.

If I go with a 10 Gal

I would get an Aqueon 20 filter (a pit over powered)

6 neons (Even that is low # for neons)
3 RCS
3 dwarf gourami (added only after RCS have bred)
1 Oto (They say they shoal, but apparently, they can be solitary, too)

I know that slightly over stocked, but not by much
Slightly, everything without your gouramis is slightly. With them is a bit much.

The idea is to breed the dwarf gouramis since there is always a need for females. I know this is a very long shot.

But Otos would not bother the Gourami eggs, neither would the neons.

Trade the DG kinder with a local LFS for supplies. Does petco trade?

I am trying to bring the tank and fish under $300

How much light would I need.
If you go with the 10 gallon, I have a perfect 10 gal LED in my sales thread. https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=198085 If you have any questions or what some pic, pm me.
==============

If I go to 20 Gallon

Plants would be same filter would be booted up to Aqueon 30

Fish would be

10 neons. (Now, they won't be so neurotic)
3 RCS
3 dwarf gourami (added only after RCS have bred)
3 Oto
This is a better stocking list. See you added 10 gallons to your tank but only added a couple more fish.

I want the dwarf hair grass to hide the shimp and fry ( I am thinking the dwarf gourami might breed I know this is a very long shot.
Moss would be much better for shrimp fry. But you wouldn't have very many survive with the gouramis in there.

-------------------------------

The idea is that the RCS would breed but the gouramis would keep them in check.


How much light would I need. I know baby tears is high light.

Can I get a fixture for under $50?

Should I go with a glass or seaclear 20 acrylic.
Acrylic is easier to scratch, and glass IMO is easier to clean.

Acrylic has the advantage of being almost leakproof, but I hate how they have to have small openings on top, because acrylic has NO structural strength.

Will acrylic degrade under heavy light.
NO

I am scared of leaks.
Don't be with these sized tanks and them being new.

I was thinking of buying LED strips from lowes, but can you place them right on top of acrylic.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1

If I go with glass, can you place LED on top of glass covers.

If I go with a sea clear 20, is there I bulb I could put in it to get the same effect.

I do not have the tools to DIY.

I prefer LEDS, because I do not want the mercury of flourescent bulbs.

If I go with a SeaClear 20, I might have to reconsider adding another $100 to the setup costs.

BTW: How common are aquarium leaks in store bought Aquariums.
Not very % is way low

While not perfect, is it reasonably safe to just assume a store bought aquarium is not going to leak.

If I leak test it, and drain it the next day, before adding soil, can I rub it down with a towel.
If you leak test wait at least 24 hrs. Yes you can just get a paper towel and wipe clean, but you can add soil with it not perfectly dry.

Are aqueons good filters? Yes or no?
They are fine. Personally I like aquaclear just for the fact they have more room to customize.

I am thinking of getting a basic 20 gallon from Walmart but I am scared of their quality. Is there any store where the tanks can ALMOST be assured not to leak.
Store bought tanks are safe

BTW: I was thinking of a fluval edge acrylic, but the thing looks horrid. I do not like the closed top. How would you clean algae?

So the basic first questions are:

1) Acrylic or glass. Which is safer? Does acrylic degrade under light?
Just go with glass

2) Lighting. Is there anyway I can grown dwarf baby tears with lighting under $50 without a DIY
With the 10 gal tank and the light in my sales thread you could, but you would most likely need at least diy co2.

3) Are Aqueon filters good?

4) Is there a wholesale place near Ocean or Monmouth Counties in New Jersey so I can lower my cost.

5) If I buy this set up, are there companies which could manage it, when I am away on vacation?
Ha, mmm. A friend you could ask to come over once a week for the water change.

NO C02 except maybe I would added a small bubble wand/airstone with a $10 air pump. I trust regular air would add some C02.
No, it would take the co2 out of the tank.

We don't inherit this world from our parents, we borrow it from our children.
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-01-2012, 07:52 PM
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For the set ups you are looking at, decide: It's the neons and shrimp, or the gouramis. If you decide on gouramis, then go with at least the 20 gallon, and if you are serious about getting them to breed then you should have cycled back up tanks waiting for fry. Personally, I would just do the neons, shrimp, and ottos in either the 10 or 20.

Go with a aquaclear filter over aqueon. They keep a consistent flow, and with the aquaeon the flow will eventually slow down quite a bit. I just de-commissioned a aquaclear that has been running on my tanks for 15 years, and the flow was the same as a new aquaclear.

Your looking at doing a low tech planted tank, so you could get by with plant-specific T8's. Really don't bother with the dwarf tears in this setup. They are a whole other ball game, especially with the other plants you have in mind. Try low tech for your first tank, and if you really like it and enjoy it, then go for a high tech tank in the future.

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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-01-2012, 09:16 PM
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Breeding Dwarf Gouramis is a lot like breeding Bettas.
You will need to house the males separately and only put the females in there when they are ready to breed.
Then the males raise the babies.

It is not like breeding egg scatters or live bearers, or most other fish.

Gourami males (especially the dwarf) are aggressive and territorial. You will not be able to keep 3 of any sex in a 10, or even a 20.

If your goal it to breed these guys:

1) GET CLEAN STOCK!!! Make ABSOLUTELY SURE they are not carrying iridovirus or other diseases. This means DO NOT TRUST pet stores, even Mom 'n' Pop stores. Get your breeding stock from a quality breeder.
2) Set up a series of tanks, perhaps as small as 5 gallon, for the males. One per tank.
The females can usually be kept in a community tank (perhaps a 20), but watch it! Some females can be a bit aggressive, too.
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-01-2012, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmia22 View Post
For the set ups you are looking at, decide: It's the neons and shrimp, or the gouramis. If you decide on gouramis, then go with at least the 20 gallon, and if you are serious about getting them to breed then you should have cycled back up tanks waiting for fry. Personally, I would just do the neons, shrimp, and ottos in either the 10 or 20.

Go with a aquaclear filter over aqueon. They keep a consistent flow, and with the aquaeon the flow will eventually slow down quite a bit. I just de-commissioned a aquaclear that has been running on my tanks for 15 years, and the flow was the same as a new aquaclear.

Your looking at doing a low tech planted tank, so you could get by with plant-specific T8's. Really don't bother with the dwarf tears in this setup. They are a whole other ball game, especially with the other plants you have in mind. Try low tech for your first tank, and if you really like it and enjoy it, then go for a high tech tank in the future.
Every body says I really would overstock the 10 gallon with gouramis. Maybe so.

But I used advisor and they gave 101% for
this

A) 3 Red Cherry Shrimp
B) 6 Neon
C) 1 Oto
D) 2 Dwarf Gouramis

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 120%.
Recommended water change schedule: 31% per week.
Your aquarium stocking level is 101%.
That was with an AQUEON 10.

I figured if I added another Gourami, to make it three (3) it would not be such a major overstock. AqAdvisor listed it as 115%.


On a cycled planted tank with a good filter, and some shrimp, and an Oto, I did not think it would be disaster.

I have been disabused of that error.

======

I understand Dwarf Gourami breeding is difficulty. I really did not expect much. I knew it would be a very big long shot.

I just thought it might be a pleasant surprise. Because Neons and Otos would not go after guarded eggs; and if the tank was planted some fry could escape to the bottom. Again, highly unlikely.

I am surpised that everyone wanted to confine the tank to 6 neons and 1 oto for a 10 Gallon. The Shrimp carry no real bioload. And 2 Gourami are acceptable according to AqAdvisor.

I will consider the Aquaclear though. I like that you can clean the floss and change the carbon separately. This way you always have a resevoir of good bacteria somewhere.

How often do you replace the carbon on the Aquaclear? And the floss? I read where you can keep the biotubes forever.

Are Otos really shoalers? Do you need (3) three or can you get away with 1 or 2?

I am planning for the 20 anyway.

If I get the 20, it would look like this:

A) 3 Red Cherry Shrimp
B) 10 Neon
C) 3 Oto
D) 3 Dwarf Gouramis


There AqAvisor puts the bioload at 75%

So I will aim for that.

Now to see if I can bring it all in under $300.

$450, if I go acrylic. I am leaning towards acrylic.

Chiefly because Acrylic is shatter resistant and leak resistant in a way glass is not. The only thing I do not like is that acrylic tanks require an almost closed top for structural reasons.

Can you lay a florescent light on the top, or a an LED?
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