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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 05:00 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Need help QUICK

Okay, so I say "quick" only because whatever I need to do, has to be done by Friday because that's when my plants come and I'll have to plant them as I have no other place to put them.


MY DILEMMA

So I think it's been about a week since I set up my 20L. I have MGOPM on the bottom and capped with 1 bag of Eco-Complete (which is like nothing in this tank apparently -___-). Rocks are granite and it's set up as an iwagumi like design.

My water is relentlessly brown. Been doing huge water changes almost every day and that hasn't helped and I even added purigen. After doing some reading tonight some people said their water was brown for over a year.

HOW DO I FIX THAT? As it is supposed to be a sleek and classy looking tank, crystal clear (or close to it) water is ideal and ultimately what I want. I didn't do anything special to the dirt or anything as I didn't ever read anything that said to do so.

I have a bunch of unused soil left if I just need to start it over, however I'll somehow have to salvage what I can of the eco-complete.



So, ultimately, my question is how can I re-do my substrate so as to eliminate the tannin induced brown water for good. (or at least so it will go away in a week or so).


*TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE*
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 05:15 AM
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"need help QUICK" means hey my fish are in the process of dying wtf do I do? Not hey my water is brown...

Boy who cried wolf situation here
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 05:19 AM Thread Starter
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lol...thanks for the constructive help!

Quick means that I need to do this by Friday and I have no idea what to do. I'm not going to let $70 worth of plants just die...

I just came across this https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=152027 and that is a 4 day process at least. Hence why I need a QUICK solution.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 05:23 AM
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If you need a place to store the plants while you fix your tank you can always put them in a five gallon bucket with treated water and just set a light onto of the bucket.


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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 05:27 AM Thread Starter
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Well I guess that can be a worst case scenario option right there. Just put them in the water and thats it? It's like 10 pots of plants (HC, DHG, Microsword, flame moss, narrow leaf micro sword, and maybe one other thing...can't remember)

But as for fixing the substrate...what should I do? Its MGOPM not the MTP (i think thats the acronym...maybe MTS) so would I need to do the "mineralizing" if I followed those steps in the link?

OR do something completely different?
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 05:53 AM
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Keep doing non-stop WCs, you should be done by Fr.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post
Keep doing non-stop WCs, you should be done by Fr.
You think so? I mean not redoing my substrate is ideal I guess (even though I didn't do anything special like sifting it or putting the clay in or anything other than putting the soil in then dumping Eco-Complete on top.) but if theres something I can do that will get rid of the tannins AND make it better (that I can do in a day) I'd do that.

*and non-stop as in literally non-stop...or daily?


But if you think just changing the water daily for a little while will work then I'll just go ahead and do that. I just got freaked out about it when I decided to do a little research about it and someone said after a year their water was still brown....sooooo I figured I had better get some advice quick.

And after I put the Purigen (100g) in it definitely is looking better but still brown/yellow (easy to tell since its in front of a white wall).
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 06:34 AM
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Put a carbon insert in your filter? That helped with my tannin stained water.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 06:45 AM Thread Starter
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I'm running a Fluval C3 which has a carbon pouch already in it from day 1 (although it was on another tank for about a week or so prior to start acclimating the filter to speed up the cycle).

The purigen is what I added today. Just have the bag on the ground though cause it won't fit anywhere inside the filter.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 08:42 AM
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Make sure when you do wc to add water slowly and not to disturb the substrate. If you can do a 100% wc and fill the tank up a drop at a time like you would drip acclimate. Add carbon to your filter to remove tannins. And be patient. Ive used sand before and had cloudy water for weeks before it cleared up.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 11:52 AM
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Take a DEEP BREATH, HOLD IT, Breath out slowly.

No need for a PANIC ATTACK Tannins in the water won't kill your plants. As OVT posted W/C are your friend. Running and recharging your Purigen will help. But, keep in mind the Tannins will keep being released until they are depleted from the soil.

This is why some of us build MTS vs. using MGOPM.

Last edited by DogFish; 09-13-2012 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Sp.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 12:14 PM
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yeah, most people mineralize to avoid this kind of thing. You can either spend the time to mineralize before hand or deal with tannins/gas bubbles afterwords. I just put mine in w/o mineralizing it myself, and it takes a while to get really clear. But as dogfish said, it is fine for your plants. if it were me, I would just plant it and dose/WC/treat it like any other tank untill its clear.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 12:16 PM
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the cap works best at 3/4 of an inch or better when i did soil
less water movement is also better

but the plants will grow in brown water just fine

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dany08fa View Post
Make sure when you do wc to add water slowly and not to disturb the substrate. If you can do a 100% wc and fill the tank up a drop at a time like you would drip acclimate. Add carbon to your filter to remove tannins. And be patient. Ive used sand before and had cloudy water for weeks before it cleared up.
Yea it's not "cloudy" though from disturbing it. And I've learned its easier to just use a bowl to scoop water in/out for a waterchange rather than pour it it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFish View Post
Take a DEEP BREATH, HOLD IT, Breath out slowly.

No need for a PANIC ATTACK Tannins in the water won't kill your plants. As OVT posted W/C are your friend. Running and recharging your Purigen will help. But, keep in mind the Tannins will keep being released until they are depleted from the soil.

This is why some of us build MTS vs. using MGOPM.
But how long will it leach - approximately? Like I said if there's anything I can do to the substrate or making it again, I'll do it. Just would prefer if it's something I can do today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicanick78 View Post
yeah, most people mineralize to avoid this kind of thing. You can either spend the time to mineralize before hand or deal with tannins/gas bubbles afterwords. I just put mine in w/o mineralizing it myself, and it takes a while to get really clear. But as dogfish said, it is fine for your plants. if it were me, I would just plant it and dose/WC/treat it like any other tank untill its clear.
Mineralizing it avoids it? And about how long would you say until yours got clear?

But yea I know the plants aren't going to die if I put them in there. It's just that once I put them in I'm not changing anything so if there was something that would be beneficial to do prior to me receiving the plants, I'm down to do it. I have a huge bag of that soil left.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 02:47 PM
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If there is any way to set up a constant water change, do it.
The more water that flows through the more the tannins are diluted, so the clearer the water will look.
If you cannot do that, then do as many water changes, as large as possible. Again, you are removing the maximum amount of tannins that way.

Both Purigen and activated carbon will remove tannins, but in a bad case like this you cannot just add them and forget them. They will fill up fast. Here is how I would do this:
Get 2 bags of Purigen. Always have one in the filter, and one being rejuvenated. Swap them every few days. If you can rejuvenate them before they are fully saturated it seems to make them last longer.
Swap out the activated carbon weekly or more often (every time you swap out the Purigen). It gets filled and cannot be rejuvenated by any method available in the house.

Here is how to tell when to change these media: If the water is starting to get lighter, then these media are still working. If that 'getting lighter' no longer happens, then these media need rejuvenating (Purigen) or replacing (AC).

The substrate will keep on releasing tannins. There is no way to make it do this any faster in any significant way. Removing the tannins may make it go faster, and warmer temperatures can probably help, but any help from these methods is marginal at best. The substrate simply has it own timetable, and that is that.

What to do with the remaining substrate:
Start the mineralizing as soon as you can, then set up another tank. Let us know how long the tannins lasted in this treatment. I think if you do enough water changes while it is mineralizing that will help a lot, but you will still see some coloring in the water.
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