Shrimp dying off slowly... whats wrong? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
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Shrimp dying off slowly... whats wrong?

Hey guys, over the last week or so I have been losing about 1-2 shrimp a day in my 18 gallon tank. In my tank currently I have cherry reds, crystal reds, tiger shrimp, blueberry shrimp, and amanos. Total I would say there are about 20 or so adult shrimp and 15 baby tiger shrimp. I tested my tank yesterday and here are the parameters

PH: 6.4
KH : 3 drops
GH : 10 drops
Ammonia : 0
Nitrite : 0
Nitrates : 25ppm

During the week so far I have lost 1 red rili ( the only one i had ), 4 tigers ( 2 were cherried females), 1 blueberry, and 2 crystal reds.

It is medium-high light ( i have a finnex ray II led 24 inch on it), I have co2 injection on it around 10 hours a day, and it is heavily planted. I have been dosing with plantex csm+b plus kh2po4 + k2so4 for around a month and a half and they have been fine up till the previous week when they started dying off. I also have 3 otocinclus in there and 1 forktails blue eye which just swims around the top and doesn't bother the shrimp at all. Does anybody have any ideas what else might be going wrong that is causing them to die? Thanks!

Edit : i currently am battling a small amount of black brush algae on the HC and growing on some of the dwarf hairgrass, there is not a lot and seems to be disappearing slowly. dont know if this would help!
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 02:25 AM
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I wonder if the GH is too high for shrimp. I know shrimp keepers usually talk about the pH, but usually low pH is also found where the water is low in minerals, low GH. Your water is not that way.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 04:06 AM
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This seems to me to be something wrong with the water since your getting BBA. and since your loosing so many shrimps so fast I would consider something toxic getting to high a level.

What amount of Co2 count/checked?
Do you oxygenate at night? Any night time deaths(if you can catch this because your up)
How long has tank been setup? Old water usually with BBA.
How long have the shrimps been in the tank?
Can you remove the shrimps to other quarters? Change 50% water??

1 Week ago what changed with your routine on the tank, additions of inhabitants, Think back to that 2-3 day period before the deaths started occurring did anything change(filter material washed out?).

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 07:11 AM
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I see you've had good responses thus far. I'm concerned about the 6.4 pH, my tap water is like 7.5 and I've never had any aquatic life kept in anything on the acidic side of the pH scale and I wouldn't dare use bottled water (the actual values don't matter assuming it's within acceptable range for the species in question, but the more important thing is pH stability). Frequent water changes can affect your pH - have you tested your water source? How do you maintain your pH acidity? If they've been living at the pH for weeks, months, years etc., then no worries. Secondly I know nitrates is ideal at 0, and I would look into that a little more. Have you tested your water to see if you're pouring nitrates into the tank? Some other stuff I'd look into is toxins. Aside from something in the water, have you added any kind of algaecides or medications to the water that may be killing off the invertebrates? I know some products warn against using them with inverts. Since I metioned medications, I'm wondering if you are seeing any obvious signs of sick fish/shrimps? Maybe there's a bacterial infection or redness type of indicators on the dead shrimps? I didn't see your temperature listed and I wanted to say one important thing about temperatures. I noticed during summer time, that is the biggest time of year that I see fish death, dogs, cats, etc. I know high temperatures stress out and kill off animals. I don't even run my heaters during summer on my fish tanks because without it, the temp sometimes reaches 80F on the hot days. Lastly, I'll leave off with maybe it's just the end of their lifespan. If the shrimps are all old, it could just be part of life and nothing you're doing wrong per se. I hate this part of fish-keeping and with small pets it usually happens around the 3 year mark. I'd say 5 years is pushing it for some small animals. I hope that helps.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 01:08 PM
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The KH & GH are fine for Neos and Amano shrimp.

Both are, however, rather high for Crystals.

KH could potentially be too low for Tigers.


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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imi Statue View Post
This seems to me to be something wrong with the water since your getting BBA. and since your loosing so many shrimps so fast I would consider something toxic getting to high a level.

What amount of Co2 count/checked?
Do you oxygenate at night? Any night time deaths(if you can catch this because your up)
How long has tank been setup? Old water usually with BBA.
How long have the shrimps been in the tank?
Can you remove the shrimps to other quarters? Change 50% water??

1 Week ago what changed with your routine on the tank, additions of inhabitants, Think back to that 2-3 day period before the deaths started occurring did anything change(filter material washed out?).

Imi
Thanks for all the responses guys, lost another tiger and two crystal reds last night .

The Co2 was right at the green level using the KH/PH chart, I have had the co2 going for a while so I don't think it is that that is causing the problem though.
I do not co2 at night I turn it off when the lights go off.
Tank has been set up since early july
most of the shrimp have been in there for a month or so now
And yes I did a 50% water change a couple days ago when a few of the shrimp first started dying but it doesnt seem to have done anything.

and finally I did not do anything different in the 2-3 days before they started dying, the only thing i did was scrape some dust algae off of the glass using a razor blade, I have done that a couple times before though and nothing bad happened
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California View Post
I see you've had good responses thus far. I'm concerned about the 6.4 pH, my tap water is like 7.5 and I've never had any aquatic life kept in anything on the acidic side of the pH scale and I wouldn't dare use bottled water (the actual values don't matter assuming it's within acceptable range for the species in question, but the more important thing is pH stability). Frequent water changes can affect your pH - have you tested your water source? How do you maintain your pH acidity? If they've been living at the pH for weeks, months, years etc., then no worries. Secondly I know nitrates is ideal at 0, and I would look into that a little more. Have you tested your water to see if you're pouring nitrates into the tank? Some other stuff I'd look into is toxins. Aside from something in the water, have you added any kind of algaecides or medications to the water that may be killing off the invertebrates? I know some products warn against using them with inverts. Since I metioned medications, I'm wondering if you are seeing any obvious signs of sick fish/shrimps? Maybe there's a bacterial infection or redness type of indicators on the dead shrimps? I didn't see your temperature listed and I wanted to say one important thing about temperatures. I noticed during summer time, that is the biggest time of year that I see fish death, dogs, cats, etc. I know high temperatures stress out and kill off animals. I don't even run my heaters during summer on my fish tanks because without it, the temp sometimes reaches 80F on the hot days. Lastly, I'll leave off with maybe it's just the end of their lifespan. If the shrimps are all old, it could just be part of life and nothing you're doing wrong per se. I hate this part of fish-keeping and with small pets it usually happens around the 3 year mark. I'd say 5 years is pushing it for some small animals. I hope that helps.
I have ada aquasoil amazonia as the substrate so I think that lowers my PH a bit, it seems to be at 6.4 and has been for about two months now.

One thing I have noticed is that the red rilli turned white on the insides before it died and the other tiger shrimp that died turned kind of pinkish white after they died.

temperature stays at around 77 I have AC going all day in the room so it never gets too hot or cold.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
The KH & GH are fine for Neos and Amano shrimp.

Both are, however, rather high for Crystals.

KH could potentially be too low for Tigers.

I will check my KH and GH today again when I get home, I think if anything that is what is killing them, i definitely have no ammonia or nitrites in there, if its not the KH or GH then it must be some kind of bacteria?.... I am really lost here as to what is wrong I just hope they stop dying
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 10:51 PM
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Ok
from what I see here. I think it is a temperature problem,

a ALL shrimps (including those eaten by humans) turn white under their exoskels when getting heated up. Hence the white coloration of their soft tissues.

This year has been somewhat hot in most areas, so does your tank sit in a room that gets a higher than normal ambient temp? If it did then this is probably the cause, and you'll simply have to cool the tank down continually. and turn off the heater during this time of year or set it to about 68-70 if you have cooler than normal nights also. Most shrimps like it there year round anyways.

If your positive the heat is not the issue then I'd go with something like copper in the water or maybe some other chem like cleaners you may have used around the system.

Only other thing I can think off would be not enough calcium for proper shell growth how much do you have added? Have you seen them molt?

Imi
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-14-2012, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
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Lost another crystal red just now ;_;.

Did a 50 percent water change now the KH is a little higher and the GH is a bit lower. The tank is hovering at around 75 degrees which should be fine now as well. I stopped putting in Co2 for now, and the ph is up a few degrees too. Hopefully they will stop dying off but i doubt it .... I have no idea waht else could be going wrong. The crystal red that is dying atm has lost movement of its front legs and is just swimming around with its back ones randomly
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-14-2012, 04:56 AM
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I didnt read the other replys thoroughly but I spot a few things I would change if it were my tank. First of all, your keeping shrimp that all require slightly different params. But I dont think that by itself would cause all these deaths. If you wish to keep all these shrimp in the tank, you can keep them but they will not all breed very well. Also, nitrates were high in the first post but should be lower now after the water change. I also dont like using ferts or CO2 in my shrimp tanks. It can be done, but you need to know that you arent over dosing. Keep a close eye on TDS for this. I didnt see any TDS measurements. This is one of the first things I test for when keeping shrimp.

can you give us an update on your parameters since the water change. dont change anything too quickly or you will stress them out. My first guess from massive die offs would be bacterial infection, chemical poisoning or water temp. you said your tank stays at 77. That should not be too high to kill them. It will definitely prevent them from breeding, but it doesnt sound like you are trying to breed since you have so many different species in the same tank. Still though, if it were my tank I would put a fan on there and try to lower it at least to 74 F. Your fish will be fine at 74. Do you run purigen or activated carbon? Maybe you had some chemicals on your skin or something was introduced into the water??????


could you post a pic of the tank. Sometimes seeing a pic gives us an idea that we may not have thought of.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-14-2012, 02:17 PM
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You don't want a higher KH than you've got for Crystals, unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xdestry View Post
Lost another crystal red just now ;_;.

Did a 50 percent water change now the KH is a little higher and the GH is a bit lower.


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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-14-2012, 02:33 PM
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Seems like there are two battles going on. The fight to save shrimpy lives and one with BBA.

Lets start with the basics of telling us the size of the tank? by the 24 inch light fixture, is this a 15 or 20 gallon tall tank?

The light intensity of the finnex Ray 2 is quite strong so dividing or shortening the photo period would be a start. Hopefully this will hasten the spread of the algae.

Shrimp have been known to survive inappropriate water parameters for several weeks before finally dying. Seems the GH and KH needs a bit of attention. Nitrates breaching 20ppm should normally indicate a need for WC in a dedicated shrimp tank.

Seems like you are trying to keep shrimp and plants and having no luck in either.

Might be better to scale back one or both and simplify.

Lastly, if you arent proactively supplementing calcium to your invertebrates, it would also account for deaths. The tip was your comment that the fish were fine. Fish dont shed an exoskeleton and would be otherwise excluded from this requirement.


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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-14-2012, 02:38 PM
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I'm just don't see the problems starting point here.

So here's a link:

http://www.aquariumlife.com.au/showt...elf-help-guide

That might be able to help it shows some pretty good understanding and comprehensive ways of checking things out.

Be sure to read clear through the parts in"If cause of shrimp deaths still cannot be identified, then consider the following:"

This is all I can come up with as my shrimps just don't have problems(mostly by luck I have to admit)

Imi
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Blue Falcon View Post
I didnt read the other replys thoroughly but I spot a few things I would change if it were my tank. First of all, your keeping shrimp that all require slightly different params. But I dont think that by itself would cause all these deaths. If you wish to keep all these shrimp in the tank, you can keep them but they will not all breed very well. Also, nitrates were high in the first post but should be lower now after the water change. I also dont like using ferts or CO2 in my shrimp tanks. It can be done, but you need to know that you arent over dosing. Keep a close eye on TDS for this. I didnt see any TDS measurements. This is one of the first things I test for when keeping shrimp.

can you give us an update on your parameters since the water change. dont change anything too quickly or you will stress them out. My first guess from massive die offs would be bacterial infection, chemical poisoning or water temp. you said your tank stays at 77. That should not be too high to kill them. It will definitely prevent them from breeding, but it doesnt sound like you are trying to breed since you have so many different species in the same tank. Still though, if it were my tank I would put a fan on there and try to lower it at least to 74 F. Your fish will be fine at 74. Do you run purigen or activated carbon? Maybe you had some chemicals on your skin or something was introduced into the water??????


could you post a pic of the tank. Sometimes seeing a pic gives us an idea that we may not have thought of.


Thanks for all the help guys I really appreciate all the responses, sorry it has taken me so long to respond I have been busy with work, so in the last two days I seem to have lost another red crystal and thats it so I guess the deaths have slowed down a bit after the water change, today however I woke up to find another tiger and crystal dead so I am doing a 50% water change with RO water (had no idea I had a RO filter system in my house till now). I tested the RO water and the KH is at 1 and GH is around 4-6, the PH however is a little low sitting at around 6.2 so I think I will need to raise it before I put it into the tank which is hovering at around 6.8 now. I redid all the tests on the tank and the Nitrites and Ammonia are still at 0 and now the Nitrates are only at around 5 PPM. I run Purigen atm in my fluval canister filter. I have just a bunch of bioballs in there for the bacteria and also the purigen on top. Should I add activated carbon as well? I will take a pic soon and post it here
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