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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2005, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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3 Novice Questions

Okay everyone, I have three things that are troubling me about one of my tanks. Here they are:
1. Is there a product on the market that is safe to use with a planted tank that will get rid of my snail problem. I'd prefer to use loaches, but I'm afraid I'd overstock the tank. Current inhabitants include 2 Bolivian Rams, 6 neons, 3 Oto cats, 3 Cory Cats all in a 10 gallon. I think I'd probobly end up with problems adding loachs so that's why I thinking of going the chemical route.

2. I purchased 5 clumps of what was labels as "Water Wysteria" at my LFS. The leaves looked nothing like Wysteria, but I liked them anyway and figured I'd go ahead and get them and try to figure out what they are later. Anyway, to make a long story short, I can't find a picture on the net that looks anything like my plants, so I went back to the LFS and questioned a different employee about the plants. He told me that they were infact Wysteria, but that they were not grown submersed. They had been cultivated above the water line and that the plant develops remakably different leaves out of water. First of all it sounds like he may be taking me for a ride, but I'm not sure. I guess my question is this "Does Wysteria really have two types of leaves depending on where it is grown?"

3. The third problem kinda relates to the first two questions. When I plant the "Wysteria" the stems slowly begin to "melt" away at the bottom section where they were planted. About a week after planting them, they turn into floating plants. I'm just kinda wondering what could be causing this. I've noticed the snails gathering about the base of these plants, so I'm not sure if they're slowly eating away at it. I've never noticed the snails eating anything other then damaged and dying plant material before though. Another thought is that maybe this isn't Wysteria at all and it is actually supposed to be a floating plant so when I plant it, the plant is "uprooting" itself. Any ideas on this would be helpful.

P.S. As soon as I get my digital camera working again I'll try posting pics of the plants in question. Thanks for any help...
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2005, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
1. Is there a product on the market that is safe to use with a planted tank that will get rid of my snail problem. I'd prefer to use loaches, but I'm afraid I'd overstock the tank. Current inhabitants include 2 Bolivian Rams, 6 neons, 3 Oto cats, 3 Cory Cats all in a 10 gallon. I think I'd probobly end up with problems adding loachs so that's why I thinking of going the chemical route.
Sorry that I have to say this but by the stockings of your tank, it is already overstocked. I wouldn't recommend anything more than a pair of bolivian rams in a 10g. I am not sure what kind of chemicals that can remove nails however there is a snail remove liquid on Dr. Foster & Smith.

Link: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...1&N=2004&Nty=1

Quote:
2. I purchased 5 clumps of what was labels as "Water Wysteria" at my LFS. The leaves looked nothing like Wysteria, but I liked them anyway and figured I'd go ahead and get them and try to figure out what they are later. Anyway, to make a long story short, I can't find a picture on the net that looks anything like my plants, so I went back to the LFS and questioned a different employee about the plants. He told me that they were infact Wysteria, but that they were not grown submersed. They had been cultivated above the water line and that the plant develops remakably different leaves out of water. First of all it sounds like he may be taking me for a ride, but I'm not sure. I guess my question is this "Does Wysteria really have two types of leaves depending on where it is grown?"
Yes, wisteria can be grown submersed and emersed.

Sumbersed:

Emersed:


Quote:
3. The third problem kinda relates to the first two questions. When I plant the
"Wysteria" the stems slowly begin to "melt" away at the bottom section where they were planted. About a week after planting them, they turn into floating plants. I'm just kinda wondering what could be causing this. I've noticed the snails gathering about the base of these plants, so I'm not sure if they're slowly eating away at it. I've never noticed the snails eating anything other then damaged and dying plant material before though. Another thought is that maybe this isn't Wysteria at all and it is actually supposed to be a floating plant so when I plant it, the plant is "uprooting" itself. Any ideas on this would be helpful.
Wysteria can be floating or planted, there are two kinds I believe.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2005, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Now that I see your photo of the emersed Wisteria, I'm sure that's what I have. So I guess the next question is is there any trick to getting it to grow submersed?

Also, I'm aware that the tank is pretty overstocked as it is, but some of the inhabitants will be moving as they get larger. The Bolivians are the largest at 2 inches currently and nothing else in the tank is over an inch right now.

I've seen the stuff that is for sale on the link you gave (they stock it at my LFS), but on the back of the bottle it says in small print that extra care should be taken if it is to be used in a planted tank. I'm not sure what they mean by "extra care," but it scared me away from using it initially anyway. Has anyone used this stuff before?
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2005, 07:28 PM
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Regarding the snails, you can try 'baiting' them out by dropping in blanched slices of zucchini weighted down with a plant weight. Drop it in the tank in the PM. In the AM, use a net to trap any snails hoving near the veggie.

As to from emersed to submersed growth, I've done it once, though with another plant. I just planted the stems, and watched all the new growth start reverting to submersed growth. There might have been a branch or two that died off during the process. No clue if Wysteria might act differently.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 04:07 AM
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Improved snail trap, you need a plastic bottle that has straight sides, they are harder to come by now but cut the top off and turn it around and stick it into the bottle creating a funnel, it is a lot harder for them to get away this way.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 11:57 AM
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Low tech solution

You can always use the low tech solution, crushing the snails with your finger! The best way is to turn off the lights at night, then in the morning look for snails as soon as you turn on the light - they seem to "come out" and be on the walls at night. Many fish will enjoy the resulting escargot!
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 01:56 PM
eds
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I know nothing about loaches - or rams, but I wanted to question whether you actually were fully or over stocked as is.

My understanding was that the otos and cories really shouldn't add that much to your bioload, such that the 1"/gal shouldn't strictly apply to them. And the neons are reasonably clean as well. Especially if your tank is heavily planted with consistently stable H2O params. So in my opinion, the issue would be whether you could get a small loach or 2 that would peacefully cohabit with the rams.

Based on my limited and superficial reading, aren't rams territorial about the bottom of the tank? I thought I'd heard that they sometimes don't get along with cories for that reason. Of course, I may be completely mistaken. But if that is the case, they may not welcome another bottom denizen. Someone please chime in and correct me if I am wrong.

I don't know how bad your snail problem is, but when I have had snails in the past, I was able to control/eliminate them over a few days/weeks by making a point of pulling out as many as I could whenever I saw them and especially during tank maintenance.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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I don't think that I would have any attitude issues with adding any loaches. Rams are somewhat territorial, but it seems to only apply to other cichlids. I've never seen any of my rams attack anything other then another cichlid.

As far as overstocking goes... I don't really think I'm overstocked right now. The tank has been running for almost a year and is heavily planted. For the first several months I was doing 25% weekly changes. Now that the tank is established, I've knocked it back to bi-weekly changes, and I never see any fluctuations in the tank's parameters. I do think, however, that I'm getting dangerously close to being overstocked. That's why I'm trying to avoid adding any livestock.

Snails - I've got two types of snails that have hitched a ride into my tanks through various plants that I've broght home from LFS's. I have regular pond snails and malaysian trumpet snails. Normally I just pull out as many as I can when doing maintanance and don't worry about them too much. After all they do help with algea control. Recently, however, they seem to have kicked spawning into overdrive and are taking over the tank. I'm leaning toward trying a chemical solution just because I'm sick of trying to manually remove them...

Back to the Wisteria... Does anyone have any clue why everytime I plant it, the stem begins to shrivel up and 'melt' away at the bottom half inch or so that is in the subbstrate?
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