I need a system for getting that special balance. - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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I need a system for getting that special balance.

Does any one have a certain system or method that they use to get everything properly balanced? I've been working at my high tech for a year now and I still can't get it right. Where do I start?

Tank info
72g bowfront
Ei dosing
Pressurized co2
Eco complete/sand
48" 4 bulb t5ho fixture(I don't run all four)

I'm not looking specifically for my tank. I'm looking for a system I can use to efficiently get any tank balanced



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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 06:05 PM
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Need more info. What issues are you having that make it not stable? Algea? Nitrate? Slow growth of plants. We need more info than just your tank size to help you out. Give water peramiters like PH GH KH that good stuff.

Doing less water changes helped me get everything undercontrol in my 29g.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not necessarily looking for an exact fix for my tank I would like to know the steps I need to correct any issues for any tank


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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethjohnson30 View Post
I'm not necessarily looking for an exact fix for my tank I would like to know the steps I need to correct any issues for any tank


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Here are the steps to correct any issues for any tank:

Step 1: Identify the problem.
Step 2: Determine which of your parameters is causing the problem.
Step 3: Alter that parameter.
Step 4: Since step 3 didn't work, alter the parameter in the other direction.
Step 5: Realize that that parameter had nothing to do with the problem.
Step 6: Identify another parameter that's causing the problem.
Step 7: Repeat steps 3-6 for every conceivable parameter.
Step 8: Give up and post problem on TPT.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Here are the steps to correct any issues for any tank:

Step 1: Identify the problem.
Step 2: Determine which of your parameters is causing the problem.
Step 3: Alter that parameter.
Step 4: Since step 3 didn't work, alter the parameter in the other direction.
Step 5: Realize that that parameter had nothing to do with the problem.
Step 6: Identify another parameter that's causing the problem.
Step 7: Repeat steps 3-6 for every conceivable parameter.
Step 8: Give up and post problem on TPT.
Lol ok I give up once I figure out the perfect system I will do a write up and post it.

My problem is bba and bga I ordered an fx5 to replace my xp2 if this doesn't work I will be back lol


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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 09:48 PM
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Well, you're sorta doing the equivalent of calling up a doctor and saying "Hey, doc. My knee hurts. It's my right knee. What'll fix it?" without letting him know that you were shot in the knee five days ago, have been treating it with hydrogen peroxide and there's this weird gooey stuff oozing out of it...

The more info you give, the greater your chance of a useful answer.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:07 PM
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First, you need to use an appropriate amount of light. That means about 20-30 micromols of PAR for a low light, or 40-50 micromols for medium light, or, for what you want, about 60-80 micromols for high light. Refer to: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=184368 to help with that.

Next, you need to use a non-limiting method for fertilizing, so you can be sure you have no nutrient deficiencies. Refer to: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21944

Next, you need to learn and apply a method for getting an appropriate level of CO2 in the water to match your high light. That is, by far, the hardest thing to do.

Finally, you need to be very dedicated to keeping up with tank maintenance on a weekly basis, keeping the plant mass under control, keeping the water, filter, hoses, etc. all clean, and avoiding any shutdown of CO2 or surge in CO2 as the tank empties.

Hoppy
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:31 PM
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And if/when you still have problems, post here. You may not get a useful answer but at least you'll get it off your chest. <g>

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
First, you need to use an appropriate amount of light. That means about 20-30 micromols of PAR for a low light, or 40-50 micromols for medium light, or, for what you want, about 60-80 micromols for high light. Refer to: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=184368 to help with that.

Next, you need to use a non-limiting method for fertilizing, so you can be sure you have no nutrient deficiencies. Refer to: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21944

Next, you need to learn and apply a method for getting an appropriate level of CO2 in the water to match your high light. That is, by far, the hardest thing to do.

Finally, you need to be very dedicated to keeping up with tank maintenance on a weekly basis, keeping the plant mass under control, keeping the water, filter, hoses, etc. all clean, and avoiding any shutdown of CO2 or surge in CO2 as the tank empties.
No offense hoppy but I feel like youre answers are never answering my questions. Don't get me wrong you have given me lots of great info but I feel that you do not actually read the thread or post before answering. It's like you see the title and then copy paste a general answer you have presaved .


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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 02:19 AM
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Seth,
what hoppy is trying to say is this:

1. The light is the most important factor in general. It pretty much controls your system.
2. If you start my limiting your light, or better still, know what level of light you have then you can "control the other factors more effectively. There are some scenario where light are too high and that co2 now becomes an issue(due to lifestock) then you will not achieve balance.
3. After limiting your light, fertilize such that your plants will have loads of leftover. EI is one method that does that.
4. Inject tons of co2 such that that doesn't becomes a limiting ferts.

If I were you, I will start with a low light. If you do not have a par meter(like me), start with low light and slowly increase light level. That way, you can avoid a lot of headaches up front. This process requires a lot of patience and may require slow adjustments over several months.

Now, if you can do that, then you will perhaps have a better chance to have a balance. After that is achieve, you can tweak light to the pace you're comfortable with for maintenance. Hope that helps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethjohnson30 View Post
No offense hoppy but I feel like youre answers are never answering my questions. Don't get me wrong you have given me lots of great info but I feel that you do not actually read the thread or post before answering. It's like you see the title and then copy paste a general answer you have presaved .


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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethjohnson30 View Post
No offense hoppy but I feel like youre answers are never answering my questions. Don't get me wrong you have given me lots of great info but I feel that you do not actually read the thread or post before answering. It's like you see the title and then copy paste a general answer you have presaved .


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What Hoppy said is the answer to your question. You asked what the method is to balance any tank. The answer it to base your setup off your light and use co2 and fertilizers to match the needs of the plants - due to the light.

There isn't really any exact ways to balance any tank. No recipies, no set in stone way to do it. Every tank is different.

If you are having BBA problems then you probably need to get your co2 in order. BGA is usually organics in the water... think dirty tank. Clean the filter, pull dead or dying plants and leaves, lots of water changes, etc. Make sure you have a steady amount of nitrates, don't let them run out. BGA will usually fade away once plant growth is good and you've cleaned up the tank.


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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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I guess I was just hoping for a set in stone way. I started out with four bulbs. And I could not get enough co2 in the tank without hurting the fish. I really think my problem was flow.

I ordered a more powerful filter.

My co2 regulator pooped out on me.

So I'm currently running one bulb 4in over the tank no co2 no ferts small water change.

I'm looking into having Bettatail build me a new regulator and I'm going to ditch the inline atomizer for an rg reactor(now that I will have enough flow)

I think this is a good start I know I can test for N and P but how do I know I I'm adding the proper amount of K and fe ?


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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 04:05 AM
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Hoppy was spot on

These are glass boxes full of living things not a video game. There no secret hidden door at level 26 (whatever that means).

The most successful people don't get hung-up on looking at parts specifically, they see how the parts interact. Achieving balance is the hobby, the hobby is not shopping for the next shinny new gadget.

I'd offer you might re-read Hoppy's post and reflect on how that relates to your own tank's issues.

The secret to balance is understanding how the aquarium as whole system works and respect it.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 04:59 AM
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Unlike most people here I don't believe that "balance" is the secret to success. The secret to success, for "high tech", which I believe actually means high light tanks, is to follow just the sequence that I mentioned. You don't need to balance your fertilizing with anything, just maintain at least enough of every needed element in the water so that is no longer something to work on. You don't need to balance your light with anything, just acknowledge that high light means you have to get the CO2 system just right, and that is very hard to do, so it is best to get the other stuff out of the way first, then devote all of your attention to CO2.

Getting the CO2 right has to start by having other stuff right - very good water circulation throughout the tank, very good dissolved oxygen level in the water, which means keeping the water surface rippled all over, and for really high light, also using other methods to keep a maximum of oxygen in the water. And, it means knowing how to maintain a clean system and doing that maintenance regularly. Once you get that stuff out of the way, you know that all that is left is CO2.

When I tried to do this I wasn't successful because I just wasn't willing to devote that much attention on such a regular basis to all of those details. No matter how many times I looked at Tom Barr's very successful high light tanks, I never managed to duplicate the effort he put into it. But, each time I looked, I learned more about what I would have to do before I could hope to succeed. Since it became clear that I wasn't that dedicated to doing that I switched to low light tanks, which better suited my life style and willingness to provide the necessary care. Now, I enjoy the hobby a lot more.

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
Unlike most people here I don't believe that "balance" is the secret to success. The secret to success, for "high tech", which I believe actually means high light tanks, is to follow just the sequence that I mentioned. You don't need to balance your fertilizing with anything, just maintain at least enough of every needed element in the water so that is no longer something to work on. You don't need to balance your light with anything, just acknowledge that high light means you have to get the CO2 system just right, and that is very hard to do, so it is best to get the other stuff out of the way first, then devote all of your attention to CO2.

Getting the CO2 right has to start by having other stuff right - very good water circulation throughout the tank, very good dissolved oxygen level in the water, which means keeping the water surface rippled all over, and for really high light, also using other methods to keep a maximum of oxygen in the water. And, it means knowing how to maintain a clean system and doing that maintenance regularly. Once you get that stuff out of the way, you know that all that is left is CO2.

When I tried to do this I wasn't successful because I just wasn't willing to devote that much attention on such a regular basis to all of those details. No matter how many times I looked at Tom Barr's very successful high light tanks, I never managed to duplicate the effort he put into it. But, each time I looked, I learned more about what I would have to do before I could hope to succeed. Since it became clear that I wasn't that dedicated to doing that I switched to low light tanks, which better suited my life style and willingness to provide the necessary care. Now, I enjoy the hobby a lot more.
Thanks for the insight I'm gonna keep working on this issue I guess I will get it eventually.


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