Why do allot of plant vendors think it's ok to substitute? - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-19-2012, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 23
Why do allot of plant vendors think it's ok to substitute?

Why do allot of aquarium plant vendors think it's ok to substitute whatever they want without asking? It's happened to me a few times and I don't order new plants very often so I assume it's happening to everyone else as well. Just send me a simple email saying they are out of something offer a refund and/or suggest alternative plant that they do have in stock. Thanks for letting me vent!
Jetbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-19-2012, 01:29 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
klaus07's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 327
That is standard practice in the trade and has been for as long as I can remember. Off shore plant suppliers have huge lists of plants on their list some of which are available and some of which arent. Even domestic suppliers may substitute. I think if you ask Gordon he has probably pulled his hair out several times over this. I think it is just the nature of the beast, the whole saler likes gets his plants at auction or from smaller farm suppliers. Some plants maybe seasonal and only available once a year.

This is another excellent reason to order from a hobbyist who actually has the plants in hand, rather than from a re-seller.

Klaus


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
klaus07 is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-19-2012, 01:33 PM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (501/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 14,902
Most aquatic plants in the US are grown in large nurseries. Specifically, one large producer in Florida and another in the midwest.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

somewhatshocked is offline  
 
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-19-2012, 03:21 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gone
Posts: 5,994
It's just plan disrespectful business practice. They know full well no one will seek legal recourse. I had that happen when I ordered from an online vendor that pops-up if your google Aquarium Plants online.

Lesson learned buy from fellow hobbyiest, there are no bargins and you get what you pay for.
DogFish is offline  
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-19-2012, 03:29 PM
Pelvicachromis Lover!
 
Complexity's Avatar
 
PTrader: (34/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,092
Yup, and since half the time (or more) you have the emergent version of the plant, you have no idea what you got. If you call them to figure out what they did send, they won't even tell you. They act as if they have no idea what you're talking about.

I greatly prefer buying plants from other hobbyists.

Vicki —Rena Filstar pimp #142 (four XP4s/three XP2s/one XP1) • Eheim pimp #301 (Pro II 2128) • Victor pimp #27 (VTS-253B-320)

• 90g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe' —— • 75g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'Lagos Red'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

• 29g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'unknown' —-- • 29g - Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe'
• 5g - RCS colony —————————————————— • 2.5g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Retired
Complexity is offline  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-19-2012, 03:39 PM
Algae Grower
 
slidewithme's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Antioch, CA
Posts: 72
I'm new to this hobby, and can still share Complexity's opinion. I've gotten far, far better service from private sellers here on TPT than any of the retail places I've bought plants from. It seems like the cheaper they are, they more shady they are. I don't want to spend $30 on three stems, so I come here to the Swap n' Shop instead.

Come join us in
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
on Reddit!
slidewithme is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-19-2012, 11:18 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (16/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 403
I've had some good experiences with online plant vendors (one in AZ comes to mind, beautiful parvas), and some not so good ones (some substitutions, plants arriving melted), but everything I've gotten from members here has been excellent. I think the hobbyists put more care and attention in the plants they grow for themselves, and then decide to sell, unlike some businesses who just grow (or buy) with the sole intention of selling.
TwoTacoCombo is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 01:05 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (16/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York City.
Posts: 1,974
That's why I hate to order plants online, period. There is the waiting and shipping period. Not sure about the health of the plants you are getting. Worst, they swap plants for you without telling you. Although ordering from message board members here are good, some times you want specific plants and no one is selling them. For instance, I was looking for some giant Java Ferns. A while back, Tom was selling some ridiculously huge ones. When I wanted to order them, no one was selling them on the message board. I ended up ordering them from Aquariumplants.com The vendor is OK. I have my issues with them and usually with their shipping and processing speeds lately. They are the only one vendor I have been consistently ordering my plants from. There was another I tried and it was horrible. This vendor would only ship out her orders on the following week. There is a week processing time, only if she has the plants you ordered BUT you won't know. So, if she didn't have the plants you wanted, you are looking at 2 week processing time. LOL After a week, I threatened her to refund my money. Then, she promptly shipped out my order but with one plant she replaced without telling me. She sent me some Baby Tears instead of some grass swords I ordered. The Baby Tears weren't in good health and I had no luck with them!!!

I just don't understand how people can run a business like that.


Canon Pimp Club #005
tetra73 is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 02:24 AM
Banned
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tacoma Washington
Posts: 1,578
That's one of the worst business practices I've ever heard of.

40B - Shrimp tank

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

~~~
jeremyTR is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 03:39 AM
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Memhis, TN
Posts: 259
They're called substitutions, and they're common practice in the aquarium business. Many of the folks who are operating online retail stores are also wholesalers in some capacity. When businesses order stock, they need product to sell and if a company is out of something, their display tanks may be empty if something isn't shipped in its place. For example, most stores would be okay with receiving red-eye tetras instead of lemon tetras if it means having fish in stock. If you don't want substitutions, put it in the order notes and you should be fine.
Leaky Filter is offline  
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 03:48 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gone
Posts: 5,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaky Filter View Post
They're called substitutions, and they're common practice in the aquarium business. Many of the folks who are operating online retail stores are also wholesalers in some capacity. When businesses order stock, they need product to sell and if a company is out of something, their display tanks may be empty if something isn't shipped in its place. For example, most stores would be okay with receiving red-eye tetras instead of lemon tetras if it means having fish in stock. If you don't want substitutions, put it in the order notes and you should be fine.
Don't sugar-coat the POOP.

These online shops know that hobbyist are NOT stores looking to fill sales display space. Most even ASK if you are a business on their forms. It's not up to the buyer to tell the seller that if they order C. Nurri that I won't accept java moss in it's place. It's just a sleazy, slimy business practice an calling is "Common Practice" doesn't make it right. We are ordering a specific plant(s). We didn't say here's $50 send me what ever's left after you take care of your $500 Fish Store order. Don't try to tell me that isn't happening either.
DogFish is offline  
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 05:35 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Robert H's Avatar
 
PTrader: (31/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Salem Oregon
Posts: 2,328
Well that's your opinion Dogfish, but it is rather harsh. Most online sellers only do substitutes as a last resort, and if the customer makes a stink about it after the fact, most will refund the substituted plants.

The truth is most of their customers do not care. The bulk of their customers do not know one plant from another and are happy with whatever they get. That is why plant assortment packages out sell the sales of individual plants. Many customers ask the online seller to pick out the plants for them.

Specifying "no substitutes" when ordering is an easy solution, but then some people get extremely upset if they do not get a plant they ordered even if no substitution is made. "The whole reason I placed the order in the first place was just to get THAT plant". Another common occurrence is people do not recognize or properly identify the plants they receive and think a substitution was made, "because it doesn't look like the pictures", or because it doesn't look like someone elses plants, or its too big or too small.

There is nothing sleezy about it. It is not a grand conspiracy. Sometimes it is even done by accident.

Online sellers of any significant size have a huge number of plants to choose from, and at the most 10% of the time you MIGHT get a substitution of ONE plant... not half an order, not even 25% of an order.

Quote:
I'm new to this hobby, and can still share Complexity's opinion. I've gotten far, far better service from private sellers here on TPT than any of the retail places I've bought plants from.
Maybe you have nothing to compare it to... I have found in many cases hobbyists sell plants for 3 or 4 times the price of online stores, (or even greater) and at a fraction of the size as compared to online stores. Stem plants in particular. A single 2 inch stem for 8 to 20 dollars from a hobbyist vs. ten 6 to 10 inch long stems sold as one bunch for 2 or 3 dollars total from an online dealer.

Quote:
If you call them to figure out what they did send, they won't even tell you. They act as if they have no idea what you're talking about.

I greatly prefer buying plants from other hobbyists.
Its not always that simple Vick. Companies like aquariumplants.com ship over 100 orders a day. Its impossible to remember every single order. Could you? I couldn't, and trying to figure out what someone received by their description is near impossible as well. Mega companies like Drs Foster and Smith ship out several hundred orders a day.

Quote:
Then, she promptly shipped out my order but with one plant she replaced without telling me. She sent me some Baby Tears instead of some grass swords I ordered. The Baby Tears weren't in good health and I had no luck with them!!!
My point exactly. One plant out of a whole order. Some people would think thats no big deal, for others its a deal breaker. BTW, Baby tears grows like a weed for me, even if its half dead on arrival.

Robert Paul Hudson

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Kindness like love is unconditional

Last edited by Robert H; 07-20-2012 at 06:09 AM. Reason: forgot
Robert H is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 05:48 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
I've clearly stated both on the phone and on line no subs, got them anyway.

Another practice on subs, if you order say C usteriana, they will send you something like C balansae(the nice rare one never comes in, but they take your $ and order for it).

Oriental and FAN simply short you the plants if they cannot fill the order, so business to business orders are not done this way as common practice, I know of no hobbyist that approve of/likes subs for their orders.

It's a crappy practice. Algae, Bladderwort, emergent grown, snails, you no not what you are going to get.

Some stuff is just not possible to get from hobbyists in QTY, but..........I know what to expect, but that does not mean it's the right way to do the business.

Some accidents do occur as some species are close and some of the folks working at these places have little idea. It's not a high paid job where they demand a Bs degree in taxonomy. "I wanna pay 2.99 for 10 stems". And I want to pay dirt for shipping even though it's 100F out and it'll takes 3-4 days. I will say at least 1 vendor is worse than 10%, but most are fairly good and try at least, but I'd rather an order be shorted than sub'ed.

The alternative is really just not subing folk's orders. This should not be that tough for them to do.




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 06:46 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Robert H's Avatar
 
PTrader: (31/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Salem Oregon
Posts: 2,328
Quote:
Oriental and FAN simply short you the plants if they cannot fill the order
Unfortunetly, that's not always the case. FAN over ten years sometimes sent me substitutes. Oriental Aquarium did it quite frequently, and a large portion of the order. Importing plants from other Asian plant farms is even worse. You never know what you are going to get and they don't even identify them on the invoice.

Quote:
I will say at least 1 vendor is worse than 10%, but most are fairly good and try at least, but I'd rather an order be shorted than sub'ed.
Perhaps, but I don't think subbing is really done that much anymore. You've been on the tour at Florida Aquatic Nurseries right? You've seen it first hand. AGA went there as a group. Their operation is gigantic, and you can see there is nothing lacking in the quality of their plants, they are vibrant, strong, and healthy, but availability changes constantly.

My experience in swap and shop has not been that great, and if I was setting up a tank or aquascape from scratch I couldn't fill a tank that way. For a hundred bucks or less I could get a large selection of plants at one time with minimal loss or substitutes. I do not expect anything better.

Robert Paul Hudson

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Kindness like love is unconditional
Robert H is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 06:58 AM
Pelvicachromis Lover!
 
Complexity's Avatar
 
PTrader: (34/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert H View Post
Maybe you have nothing to compare it to... I have found in many cases hobbyists sell plants for 3 or 4 times the price of online stores, (or even greater) and at a fraction of the size as compared to online stores. Stem plants in particular. A single 2 inch stem for 8 to 20 dollars from a hobbyist vs. ten 6 to 10 inch long stems sold as one bunch for 2 or 3 dollars total from an online dealer.
I will give in a little on this as I have seen it both ways. I have had hobbyists send me very generous amounts of plants, as well as extras. And I've also received small amounts which took me by surprise. I must admit that what I used to receive before I was gone for school seemed more generous than what I've received so far now that I've returned. I've considered it to possibly be just the few I've bought from, but it's hard to say. Most quantities are in the middle, but I'm not seeing any large quantities like I used to while I am seeing small quantities which I never got before. One seller advertised something like 20 stems, but what I got was just the top 2" of his trimmings. By the time I prepared them for planting, only a tiny portion stuck up from the substrate. Needless to say, it ended up a total loss.

I think part of the problem is we are more forgiving of a fellow hobbyist than we are of a company. We expect the company to know their job by now while we offer a greater benefit of the doubt to the hobbyist. Maybe the guy who shipped me the short stems thinks they were perfectly acceptable? Then I blame myself for not asking the length. I would not be so forgiving of a company.

I'm not saying it's fair. I'm saying it's human nature to a certain extent.

Quote:
Its not always that simple Vick. Companies like aquariumplants.com ship over 100 orders a day. Its impossible to remember every single order. Could you? I couldn't, and trying to figure out what someone received by their description is near impossible as well. Mega companies like Drs Foster and Smith ship out several hundred orders a day.
So does Amazon, but they keep track of everything they ship out. I expect all companies to be keeping track of their inventory, coming and going. I certainly would not expect the customer service rep to have actually remembered my order no more than I would expect it at any other company. I would, however, expect the rep would be able to look my order up in their records.

What you're saying is that these companies do not keep track of their inventory? They just grab a plant and pack it without keeping any kind of record of what's being shipped out? Maybe this explains why they do not know what they have in their inventory and accept orders for items they do not have which is causing them to make substitutions in the first place.

Vicki —Rena Filstar pimp #142 (four XP4s/three XP2s/one XP1) • Eheim pimp #301 (Pro II 2128) • Victor pimp #27 (VTS-253B-320)

• 90g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe' —— • 75g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'Lagos Red'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

• 29g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pelvicachromis pulcher 'unknown' —-- • 29g - Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe'
• 5g - RCS colony —————————————————— • 2.5g -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Retired
Complexity is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome