breeding black tail shiners - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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breeding black tail shiners

Hello,

I have a 55 gallon biotope aquarium. Its based on the guadalupe river in San Antonio, TX. I have some black tail shiners and a rio grande cichlid and a longear sunfish. I had been trying to breed the shiners but winter temps and no heater put a freeze on my plans.

Fast forward to the end of febuary and vwola just like clock work they start mating. I picked up some rocks and just like it said in the very minimal information I could find they had laid there eggs in the crevices under the bolders probably over 100 eggs were sitting there.

So now to my questions...

I have the eggs attached to the rocks in a breeding net in another tank. I believe they were fertilized since I could see little white spots in them, a few days later and they have turned foggy inside. Do I need to be tumbling the eggs?

I have some infusoria culturing but will the baby shiners eat baby brine shrimp or crushed flake?

In the info I found online which again is very little it says that the eggs were generally deposited in riffles and fast flows, do I need to have water current moving over the eggs?

What temp is best to speed up the hatch time?

Thanks for all the info
Alex R.


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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 12:30 AM
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Wow lots of questions that I can't answer! Maybe your best bet would be to find info about a similar species? What is the species name of the fish in question?


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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 12:52 AM Thread Starter
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This is the only info out there on it.

Cyprinella Venusta

http://www.bio.txstate.edu/~tbonner/...%20venusta.htm

Closest thing I can find info on is the red shiner a more commonly kept aquarium shiner. Even that info is limited.

Both are egg layers, eggs take 3-5 days to hatch. Both are crevice breeders.

Thats all I got so far.

Alex R.


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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 01:21 AM
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The reason they lay eggs in crevices is to get them out of the oxygen deficient silted bottoms and up where flowing water can keep the eggs cleaned and oxygenated. As long as you have water movement in their tank the eggs should live and hatch. I am unsure of the size of the fry as well. You can look it up in Robert Goldsteins book on breeding north american fish. Even if the fry are too small for bbs, you should be able to start them on microworms, vinegar eels, or banana worms.

I dont know how much water flow you are getting by putting them in the net, but you could put an airstone near the eggs to create momement. Good luck!
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info.

I just looked at them and I can see two little black spots moving around in each egg. Looks like I have over 75% forming right now. 2-3 days till hatch.

I found that they were most commonly breeding in 1c/ft of water flow.

Dont know how much that is but not very much for sure.

Alex R.


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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 01:29 AM
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"I have the eggs attached to the rocks in a breeding net in another tank. I believe they were fertilized since I could see little white spots in them, a few days later and they have turned foggy inside. Do I need to be tumbling the eggs?"

The "foggy inside" part worries me. If they goes white fast, I think it may be too late. Klauss was very correct they need constant water movement. If the happens again be prepared to aerate the eggs. Defiantly get an air stone under them now.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 01:31 AM
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As far as what they will eat, you could ask Paul Sachs who breeds and sells this fish among others, You can send him an email from his website, aquaculturestore.com.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 01:35 AM
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You are going to need to setup a shallow rearing pan for the fry, I have my doubts you can raise them in a makeshift net. Water quality is going to be an issue, it would be best if you can filter the water with a sponge filter that is cycled. I used to make them out of film canisters and sponges. pvc cnnectors work also.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 01:50 AM
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Spawning habitat: In fractional crevices (Heins 1990); generally located in flowing water, preferring crevices in current velocities of 0.30 m/s (1.00 ft/s) (Baker et al. 1994). Populations in reservoirs shifted their preference of current velocity, choosing crevice sites in locations of much lower current speeds (Baker et al. 1994). In the Blanco River, Texas, C. venusta were observed depositing eggs underneath small boulders and large cobble in a bedrock riffle in the swiftest current velocities available

1fps = 0.68 mph
If that helps?
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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Ok gang, im not always the best at decribing and sometimes I like to take certain things for granted.

The eggs are currently in my planted tank in a breeding net with 9 other one week old sword tails. This tank has an aqua clear filter. I have them on the far side of the tank away from direct flow from the filter. When they hatch I will move them to.....

A 5.5 tank that I use as a breeding tank and plant grow out. It has a cycled sponge filter. There should already be some infusoria in it.

Im going to use a 15 gallon as the second stage of the grow out. Then they will probably go into another 55 for final grow out.

The eggs are clear enough for me to see two little eyes moving around in most of the eggs. Probably 75%.

Im pretty sure im okay and im definitly excited nice to see my hard work coming together even if it did take 6 months. LOL

Thanks for the input
Sincerely
Alex R.


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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 01:54 AM
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Sounds like you got this in hand
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 01:57 AM
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The on-line images of the rio grande cichlid and the longear sunfish look like they are pretty awesome fish. How big are yours? Can you post a picture of your 55 G biotope? Sounds nice.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 02:16 AM Thread Starter
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Well im cheating right now....

My Bio-tope has become a jail for unwanted aggressive cichlids, my buddy keeps having to re-home them to me so my bio-tope is kinda funky right now. Ill post some images for you through its stages.


29 gallon with DIY Concrete back ground




55 gallon after collecting rock plants and some fish from the river, I boiled the rock in the kitchen lets just say the little lady wasent thrilled.




Here it is after I put some texas holey rock and a bubble wall.


Here is a pic of the rio



These pictures are all old, currently there is a bunch of fake plants since the live ones I collected either got eaten or died.....

It does loke alot more finished now then ever. Wish I had mroe pics but this should get you the idea.

Alex R.

P.S. I also forgot to mention the Mexican Tetras, I love these fish. Very intertaining they love to school and do figure 8's in the tank. By far some of the fastest fish Iv ever seen.


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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 04:30 PM
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I like your set up and the idea of a native biotope. What's wrong with boiling rocks!, right?
I am working on a South American Clear Water biotope. The plants are acclimating and I also have some fish that do not belong. I think I have too many plants though.
Picture from today
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One from last week
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I already want a bigger tank.
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